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@playcasino1 174450 wrote:
Here’s an extract from an e-mail with the CR aff guys about 10 days ago :
ME : When u guys do cross marketing from casino to casino, do u carry the affiliate tag across as well? This has to be the case, no?
CR : For the cross marketing, the tag is not usually carried away. The reason is very simple – we have been in this industry for almost 10 years with 23 brands – so if we’d carry the affiliate tag, it would be very hard to find new players. You could be working and investing a lot with a player and then all your commissions would go to the first affiliate that found the player
ME : Based on the reasoning u provided re: carrying aff tags, I think its all the more reason to carry the tag.
CR : For the aff tags, what I want to say is that this player you just send to one of our casinos, may already be (but you don’t know it) the affiliate of another affiliate in one of our other casinos… so we’d have to take your commissions out…
what do you think now? ME : I hear you… But still I don’t see the reasoning behind the whole thing. Other programs that I work with have a number of casinos in their group. If I send a player that has already signed up through another aff tag, then he doesn’t belong to me. This I accept.
CR : If you want we can talk about it over the phoneWe did have a chat and I asked whether other affiliates are ok with this (tags not carried through), the response I got was not a clear cut YES or NO, but it leaned more towards “yes”. Well I felt in that case, I was pretty much OK with it, but still not happy.
And then Ixian started this thread….:thumbsup::hattip:
bb1webs, u are correct! Based on the above, they did make it clear to me which I do appreciate. Thank you! However,the reasoning behind why they don’t carry the tags still doesn’t make sense to me! If other groups are able to, then i don’t see why they can’t
I sincerely hope they change this policy as I would still like to promote their group!
it’s utter nonsense filled with the AM spin.
Hi again,
I knew this was going to be a busy thread.
okay I actually DO understand their POV. I don’t like the way it works against me … but I understand it.
if you got 20 properties then there are bound to be signups from different affs to different casinos.
I was thinking about this the other day from a devious POV. Its really ingenious. You pay honestly, give these great no carry-over negs, or the wagershare which despite what some may think, (and I’m on the old rev share) but i have a friend who makes a ton of money and that friend was telling me the other day they had a $20 depositer make them some outrageous number I’m almost ashamed to say for fear it already sounds surreal. I want to say $5k. *I stopped after writing that, thinking maybe it was $500, but I’m pretty sure it was 5k. granted this is the first time in about a year i’ve heard such claims though I’ve heard this aff claim having had some great months in the past due to similar.
I was an aff who had a big winner back ’03 .. the person won like 40k and it rolled over to next month and that was all lost back, me taking 35%.
Ahem… could really use that again since its been 6 years .. ..but anyway ….
ya they showed their true grit to me then in at least you’re getting paid for what you’re told you’ll get paid.
I also know that RA sends out special offers to retain otherwise lost players and have been successful bringing back whales for literally another 6 months or better.
so weigh it all.
I personally experienced the beauty of wagershare, if someone keeps winning and playing it back you get paid for each cycle without ever having the win subtracted, and it adds up to some amazing results.
However, a site like mine, that lives practically off return visitors who come back to select another casino, suffers heavily from cross promotions that are not credited. I am going to have to crunch some numbers to make a decision here. I didn’t know they were mailing out all these disks. It doesn’t agree with my business model at all.
When it was discovered that Grand Prive was cross marketing without crediting affiliates, people had a fit. The same happened with 400 Affiliates.
I don’t understand why, when those other incidents happened, nobody said anything about Rewards doing the same thing. You know, something like, “Well, Rewards does this too…” I don’t get this at all. Some people claim to have known about it for years — so why didn’t you speak up at the time? sneaky2.gi
Anyway, I hope Rewards will stop this immediately. If a player isn’t tagged to an affiliate, send all the CDs in the world. But if a player is tagged to an affiliate, that player should be connected to the affiliate for life, unless another affiliate is involved, in which case the last referring affiliate gets the credit. At NO TIME should an affiliate-tagged player ever be “un-tagged.” (Unless the player and the affiliate are the same person.)
How long does Rewards wait before sending out the CD? A week? Or do they look at the value of the player first and send CDs based on that? For example: “Hmm, this player is a whale, let’s see if we can’t get him to switch to this non-tagged casino…”
Thinking about this really pisses me off. :madat:
When Brightshare, Referback, and Fortune cross promote, they ALWAYS include the affiliate if there is one. This is how it should be. These programs know that, long term, if the affiliate makes more money with their program, they will give them better exposure.
My suggestion to Rewards: Refrain from cross promoting to affiliate-tagged players, OR if you do cross promote, keep the player tagged to the last referring affiliate.
My 2 cents.
i do not like this cd crosspromotion thing either.
if you refer a player and he/she gets some free cd’s after a while with no affiliate code embedded it is sending free traffic to Casino Rewards, IMO.
Yes they are very good in keeping players happy but if those aint yours anymore because of this, you might reconsider.
Totally agree with Engineer!
I know you all love CR and good for you but I’ve always found them to be a bit of a trojan horse.
Simple Solution: If a program cross promotes, the original referring affiliate should get the benefit of any cross promotion by the affiliate program.
Example: Engineer signs up a player who has never played at any CR casino. Then Engineer should be the beneficiary from any future cross promotion by the affiliate program since he is the original referrer.
However if Dominique refers the same player to a separate CR casino then she gets credit for this player at this casino.
Finally if the affiliate program cross markets the same player to another casino – the original affiliate, Engineer, should get the credit.
This way the original referrer will get the $$ instead of the affiliate program (which did NOT bring the player)
Hi again all,
as I said at first … I’ve known about this from the time I asked .. and considered it the cost of doing business with CR.
same as if you’d accepted a CPA deal where you got paid for bringing them to finish line and nothing more.
And ya it didn’t make too happy either but I was aware of the situation before hand.
Getting mad at them for not having done your homework is displaced anger btw: AND this should be a learning point everyone should remember if they didn’t know already which is that traffic goes somewhere when they visit a casino and the players go somewhere whenever they visit any place that you have exposed them … meaning the first thing I checked out was the casino rewards player site because its pretty obvious with what they loudly proclaim “spend our rewards at any of our properties” and I wanted to see if I was getting credit for when that happened. Its been so long now I won’t say I know for certain but if I had to guess I’m pretty sure its no.
___________
sidenote: if you visit any of my sites you won’t search far before you’ll see me request to the reader that they return to my sites to sign up and play at any of the sister casinos … and I remind them as often as possible that choosing their casinos from my sites don’t cost anything extra but actually gives them an extra buffer of comfort between not having any recourse to having me … and then I run a guarantee which I like to think helps players come back as well but that’s just an “extra” I Throw in and its not necessary in order to get your surfers educated in why its to their benefit choosing from a casino portal over just typing in the casino’s name or through a search engine.
I’ve written a lot of articles promoting the positives of what I do … therefore what you do. and I could write a lot more. There is intelligent reasoning for coming back to your site and joining any sister casinos from your site over just signing up or using the disks. Would you be interested if I wrote one for you to put up?
And frankly I could use some links and you all could do me a great favor by allowing me … I’d be thrilled to get one link out of the article and don’t care if I get my name on the article. The link would be great.
If anybody’d thinks they’d consider putting it on their site somewhere then holler and I’ll write it up and post it.
Some affs want to hide their aff codes … I give (and always have) surfers more credit than that: they aren’t stupid … majority of them (people think just fine on their own, its the mob mentality effect that hurts us humans so much .. if we’d all learn to overcome mob mentality, think on our own and speak up as such .. but that’s another story. People will figure out that you’re not doing this for kicks.)
… so anyway IMHO its foolish to think you’re getting anything over on them by hiding your links. If anything I suspect the day will come when there may be as many that would type in the casino’s name because a site tried to HIDE the fact they were making money on the situation (like anybody does anything for free any more … people can’t afford to be noble to much extent anyway) as the affiliate might lose to those that type around the aff link nowadays.
Personally I offer a service which is valuable. If they want to choose to skip over what I’m offering … all they have to do is get froggy and jump.
but I won’t be there for them when/if the chips are down (certainly not too the extent I am for my supporters anyway) and the only thing i can say is they’re lucky they chose a casino I would list because its probably going to be treating them right … but if they don’t … well they won’t likely be getting a lot of *sympathy from me when I find out they didn’t use my links to sign up there.
*I would probably try to help them cause that’s just who I am … besides …I might convince them I’m worth supporting … but that’s a topic for another day.
$$$$$$$$$:flush:
Oh now here’s something else to RA’s side on this. Before many of you were aware of this matter … you were pretty happy with RA, is that correct?
Happy enough that you list them in any case … I think that’s fair to say?
Okay … keeping in mind that everything you want … is something that I want … so don’t lynch me … but somewhere along the way they managed to keep you happy with the current terms … bottom line-wise … if not then that too would be your fault for listing them because everyone knows I am strongly voiced about not listing programs that don’t perform.
so I assume they kept you happy before you became aware …
then now you’ve caught up with me. What are your decisions about them after weighing the fact that even with the terms you now find unattractive … but when unaware … they were attractive ….
do you do?
If I had thought for a minute that many affluent affs were unaware I’d maybe have lobbied for change a bit harder … but this seemed an accepted … non-term shall i term it? an accepted non-term in their T&Cs. They never claimed to track them over. Was simple to me. take it or leave it.
Despite that .. I have never been sorry.
Times are changing however and it would be great if they’d perhaps consider a change on this matter as it would surely send them over the top as arguably being the best casino aff program in the industry … all-time.
said another way
If you choose to get mad at RA for not tagging them over … you must then become unhappy with other programs that do tag over … assuming you make similar income when giving similar exposure … for being so incompetent that the best they can do is earn the same as a program that didn’t tag over?
see my dillema? Who did I fault? both types earned similar income.
I just considered it a trade out much like you trade out with RB: you lose those players who you send that were originally signed with someone else … but gain a first timer for life at any of the casinos … a trade-off.
edited to add: that was then and this is now however. Reason I have sort of backed off a bit is that with the addition of all the new casinos to RA’s stable .. the one casino I had my player signed went from competing with about ten to about twice that many … and I worry with more variety it might lure more players away than I was losing in the past.
thus a bigger loss in bottom line over the long run and thus the reason I had begun shying away from running them in top spots.
They still have them (#1) on many of my sites but I just recently moved them back to a #2 spot on my highest traffic area because of this concern.
_____________
I’m still reeling that so many were unaware of this matter. It really was no secret at any time.
So please everyone refrain from calling them undeserving titles. I value honesty above all else … so that I can make my own judgments on how I choose to handle my business and RA has been honest from the go about this.
How mutch did they pay you for support cross promotions ? lol
You missed what I said my friend.
What helps you, helps me. I’m all for reform. Just pointing out the dillemas I thought over … apparently when many of you were unaware of this matter.
I’ve had time to think it all through for a very long time. It is apparent many have not had that time so I’m just offering to help them cut a few corners to find all the angles to consider.
How mutch did they pay you for support cross promotions ? lol
It would have to be a great amount since I would benefit from reform more than most i suspect.
For me its simple math. Normally players return to my site when they want to play at another casino. With heavy cross promotion without tags, they will likely not come back to pick another casino but travel through RA. There are now a whole lot of casinos, which means I am losing a whole lot of money. The more casinos they add, the less they have to pay to affiliates and the more I lose.
I am starting to think that RA with all it’s casinos is a big leak on my site. It’s almost like settling for CPA. Get paid for one casino, all the rest is a freebie for RA. And I have good value players, not huge numbers. Each player lost this way takes a chunk out of my pay.
I will wait until they have a chance to reply and to talk to management, but if nothing changes I will pull them, as much as I love the people and wagershare.
personally I’d be thrilled with giving me a 50/50 shot. tag me to half of the casinos lol.
the thing is like I said earlier. times are different and getting harder (seemingly) so we have to change with them or wither.
I’ve just recently moved over to promoting 400 affs more …for the reason they proved to tag cross promotions.
I wasn’t aware brightshare tagged across. I did know they tagged players brought over to VIP .. but didn’t know they tagged over to the other properties.
that is great news and will give great reason to consider moving them up further too.
I am glad this thread was created. Perhaps RA will view it as opportunity and make lemon-aid out of lemons.
Toss us a bone and win in the end even bigger than current.
