- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Yep, exactly what Dom said. Not to mention the chances of them coming back to my site is next to zero if the casino offers them a sweeter bonus than I can.
Especially to any gambling whales that might show up. Re-read Engineers post.
If you were a high-roller and you go to the casino via a casino junket, and the owner of the casino comes up to you and says, — forget the junket — I can get you a much sweeter deal if we work directly, clearly the person will go with the casino owner.
edited to add: and no junket in his/her right mind would be bringing any more high rollers into that casino – they’d be scared this crazy casino owner was going to snake them all…. clearly a predatory move in our biz
@bb1webs 174514 wrote:
personally I’d be thrilled with giving me a 50/50 shot. tag me to half of the casinos lol.
the thing is like I said earlier. times are different and getting harder (seemingly) so we have to change with them or wither.
I’ve just recently moved over to promoting 400 affs more …for the reason they proved to tag cross promotions.
I wasn’t aware brightshare tagged across. I did know they tagged players brought over to VIP .. but didn’t know they tagged over to the other properties.
that is great news and will give great reason to consider moving them up further too.
I am glad this thread was created. Perhaps RA will view it as opportunity and make lemon-aid out of lemons.
Toss us a bone and win in the end even bigger than current.
no offense bb1 but didn’t you blast every one in a previous post for not doing their homework?
In answer to Engineer, on why i or other’s didn’t point this out in earlier discussions
1. I kinda come and go in spurts, I often miss these discussions.
2. I tend to focus on social, legal and marketing stuff mainly
3. I’ve always been cynical about affiliate programs so anything that isn’t being hidden/lied about doesn’t really surprise or bother me that much.
a. I kind of assume there is a lawyer at every program looking for loopholes in their terms to squeeze more money out of the affiliate channel into their house accounts.
b. I’ve found over the years that some of the folks i work with and trust greatly have often been considered part of the Axis of Evil here, so i’m hesitant to speak up.in this case:
I happened to see this thread and read it. when i got to the point where it was revealed that RA was involved, I wanted to post that i recall this coming up with brent and maybe since then again (maybe when ryan was around)?.ultimately, as others have said, i look at what kind of revenues a program can generate with a given amount of exposure and that determines who gets what traffic/exposure.
*to slot – touche’ my friend
shhh. I’m working here. lol.
_______________
what would be great is if RA decides to recognize the change in times and perhaps sweeten the pot by putting our minds to rest about such worries. That would be best news of the year.
_________________
To Am :
makes my points better than I can and actually some I didn’t come right out and say but agree with in general.
I am cynical about anything i can’t have backed up proof about because that is what is expected from me these days.
so ya I tend to assume the worst and hope for the best and in that case … you go with who has the best bottom line as similar programs = for the amount of exposure given …
there is no guarantee any of the programs will honor their word about long term residuals but I feel safer with RA than with many programs that make much bolder claims as to being aff-friendly. My bottom line always reflected RA, and of of course other programs I list, as being aff-friendly.
All the fancy aff tools, promo kits, contests and half-necked girls at the conventions … never made those places more aff-friendly than was that bottom line that enabled me to buy more ad space the next month.
I just wonder why no one from CR has comented yet…
As noted by others there are two ways of looking at this.
1. You’re losing out
2. You still have the chance of getting a player on 19 casinos if he / she happened to sign up on oneTough one this.
To me cross promoting at the other groups makes sense – they have at most 7 or so brands. When there are twenty brands maybe I want the chance of landing a player. The number of casinos does make a difference IMHO.
Not saying it’s right, but think about it.
It’s the weekend, the title says nothing with their name and it’s not in their forum…. They will answer.
ya I think their weekend starts about 12 hours earlier or later … (I forget) but anyway my weekend is usually ending different than theirs does.
Dom’s right. they’ll reply.
I would like to remind everyone what I said earlier before you get too upset: which is that you were happy with the bottom line before you knew about this …
and that they have never made a secret of this matter.
I appreciate it. I imagine Prof and RA would appreciate it.
* trust me folks, … much as a supporter of RA that I am … I would hold them down while you poured the tar if they had done something that wasn’t there all ready to be known.
There are a lot of comments in this post and I will try to answer as many of the questions as I can in one sitting.
Firstly, we do not cross-promote/push active players across our brands or un tag them from affiliates. Our retention team focuses solely on keeping the player playing under their own active account and our customer service and promotions are tailored to the casino the player is interested and playing on. All offers are sent to the player with the account number of their most recently used casino account and are solely focused on keeping them playing.
CDs – lists are obtained through third party vendors and list rentals, mostly large scale media companies, and typically we don’t even see the lists – ixian – in your case your registrations was way too close to the delivery date of the CD for your claim of cross promoting. You have signed up on the 2nd of the month and then receive a CD on the 21st of the month. There is no way that we could have received your details and then delivered the CD to your door in the 3-4 week time frame (artwork/printing/mailing etc takes time – these campaigns take the marketing department months to plan). We wish we could turn around something like that but there is just no way for us to be that efficient. Thus your registration had nothing to do with the CD you recieved. Furthermore active players and affiliate based players are never sent cd’s just reactivation campaigns, like scratch cards or letters offering them a bonus on their specific last played account.
You did also have other accounts linked to some of our brands from over 12 months ago which were tagged to an older CD where there had been no activity on your account – inactive players from a different CD tag obtained through list rental services – not cross promoting our affiliates.On our general tracking:
With our brands, multiple affiliates can send the same player to multiple casinos. Our tracking has always been that the player is tracked to the last source that sends them to the casino when they join. We have always felt this is the fairest way because otherwise your hard work might generate revenue for old non active affiliates. This system has been in place since the beginning (when we only had 3 brands) and has not changed. Having been in the industry for over 8 years we have a few players who are tagged to different affiliates across different brands. A few suggestions have been made – tag them to the first affiliate who brought them in, the last, the most current etc etc. In the case where say I have sent someone to BJB 4 years ago and the player only purchased $50, then a player came through a different tag last year to GT and has become a profitable good player it wouldn’t be fair that the player is tagged to the first affiliate on BJB seeing as the latest promotion and site has made the difference in making the income for the affiliate. The current model gives the affiliate the opportunity to push a returning player to their site through to another brand as well. Furthermore and this is an important one, we use cookies, session variables and query strings to make sure all of the tracking is not lost. Because we use cookies a player who visits and does not join right then will still be tagged to that affiliate until they are sent to the site again via another affiliate. So let us use the casino rewards pages for example.
Say affiliate ABC sends a player to blackjack ballroom, and the player does not join but instead has a look around and has to go to dinner or something. A week later he sees bjb on casino rewards and decides hey I remember that site lets have a look again and he clicks on the bjb image and goes to the site and joins. This player because of the cookie is still tagged to the affiliate ABC, the same is true for the uninstall pages.So the player is still tracked to the affiliate who sent them to the site and we are not overwriting the cookie.
Whales – Engineer I’m addressing your post here specifically, but I know this is a concern for a few of you out there. There is no way we would offer/entice/encourage a whale to switch brands for the sake of saving money. These are the guys we need to keep happiest for as long as possible and the ones who make both the casino and the affiliates/advertisers the most money. We do everything in our power to keep the player happy and playing at the account they want to play at most and would do nothing to jeopardize that player’s satisfaction. Our retention and VIP level of service is one of our strongest points in this industry and most of you would have seen old players coming back after months of not playing. If we cross promoted or unmapped the players you would not see the player value you do. Plus using the example above they will be tracked based on the cookie in their system so more than likely either the same affiliate or a new affiliate would get the player anyway, either way we would have no idea what tag would be in their system.
Hopefully this post, which is starting to look like war and peace answers the questions you have. As a few of you pointed out we have been in the industry for over 8 years, we’ve been working with many of you. We are not out there to rip people off or shoot ourselves in the foot by trying to ‘steal’ from our advertisers and affiliates. We understand that this is not the way to ensure long profitable business models and we are certainly not in this game for the short term. We seek long term relationships with both players and affiliates alike.
Hi again all,
thanks for giving Y a chance to respond.
A good explanation (IMO)
I want to make sure i understand.
if a player I send to bjb gets $50 in rewards money and that player decides to play the $50 at GT … and that player then decides they like GT better … I for all practical reasons lost that player. In other words whatever the player deposits into GT … would not in any part be mine?
ifso
here’s the thing Y: I can’t speak for others but my concern (moving forward) is that the one casino where I have the player signed up now has twice as many to compete for keeping the player retained at that one casino …
and its common sense that people when they enter the rewards (players) site and see they have 20+ casinos to spend their rewards money … that we are going to lose a fair number to other casinos.
I’ve always known that and it was cool because RA still managed to be a good producer … I liked the people there … (still do) and have the greatest respect for RA so it is all good
I have no problem jumping on the RA bandwagon and helping push when it can’t pull … though admittedly that time has not been seen and hopefully won’t be any time soon because I can’t pull myself right now
but anyway … now the competition is doubling against the casino where i have the player signed up … and that greatly worries me it will result in a drop in player over all value.
As I said I can’t speak for the others but this has me frightened because its taking a lot longer to learn seo than I expected so until that time comes when I can afford to lose a little and not feel it … I need to hang on to the status quo
I don’t really have an answer to my concerns but I’d appreciate it if you ran it by the minds there at your end … because what some of the others have said here holds true with me as well … I’m putting my best chance, meaning what is likely to earn me the most for the longest … in front of everything else out of simple survival instinct.
so when you explain it, tell them that right now I’m weighing the current situation where if I land a player at RA … I risk the scenario I mentioned up top … 20 properties to compete with in its own network.
the 20+ properties is a good thing and while I don’t have a definitive answer … maybe the minds at RA can figure out a way that it isn’t an ironic twist that one of the best things about RA … is also one of the most frightening to its affs.
You see where I’m going with this? I’m not blaming RA for anything sinister, not about thinking that RA is TRYING to steal players … but rather the circumstances have accumulated to such an intersection where the very variety that we would use as a selling point … is also working against us … and as the selling point grows … (variety of casinos) … so grows that which is working against us.
it is an ironic twist of fate but never the less one we as affiliates … have to face and include into our business plan.
So I lay my concerns on what I hope are wiser minds than my own … because I am finding it tough to figure out what I would consider a fair approach for all but I do know they need to figure out a way to put to rest the concern of the scenario I have painted for you if they don’t want to see affs holding back because of those fears.
because right now on the one hand is a program that is tagging the players over in cross-promotions which is basically a win-win situation for us affs, whether the player stays or moves over to a sister casino we don’t lose them
or risk the chance the player has chosen the one casino out of 20+ possible … that is going to appeal to them the most and be the one they will continue to stay and play.
please explain it like that cause I am hoping to have my worries put to rest.
ps
to be clear. I am not saying I am worried about cross promotion.
just the way the rewards system is set up it exposes the player to all those other casinos in the network and that’s not good for me at all unless the player is tagged over under my ID.
Y:
maybe I misunderstood and I should have asked more clearly.
if the player is in the rewards/players site and they choose a different brand to have their rewards money sent .. is the player tagged over to us then?
that’s my big concern. I don’t have any right to be worried about what happens to the player except when they are there by my doing, which would include them being there to collect rewards money for any play at any casino I signed them.
I would like to add that i would like to know the answer to the question bb1webs just posted and more specifically,
if there are no longer any cookies on the players machine to link him or her to the affiliates accountThank you for the detailed response, Yaniv.
*Whew*
I’m not exactly sure why some people said that CR has been cross-promoting for years, though… That’s the only thing that still seems odd to me.
Anyway, thanks again. :satisfied
@bb1webs 174692 wrote:
if a player I send to bjb gets $50 in rewards money and that player decides to play the $50 at GT … and that player then decides they like GT better … I for all practical reasons lost that player. In other words whatever the player deposits into GT … would not in any part be mine?
Bonuses/loyalty points can’t be claimed into a non-existing account. They can only be redeemed at an existing account.
