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I Just Need to add one Last Point to This to Show you that Single Sign on is Not that Bad for Affiliates and we are Not Stealing But beeing Rather Fair Take this Example.
1) Player signs Up on the 01 Jan 2007 via BV magazine to BV
2) Player then Goes to Affiliate A and downloads CGB on 22 Jan 2007
3) Player then Downloads a 3rd Casino from Affiliate B On the 1 March 2007Then By all Rights You as the Affiliate Did No Marketing to Bring The player to Our Group we did this Via sending a Magazine to a Database we had Bought from a 3rd Party
WE would not have to Pay comm to Affiliate A or Affiliate B as we did all the Marketing and Bought The player In from our Own Marketing Campaigns and he signed up with us First Before going anf finding our Links on the Affiliate Sites
But we DO pay Comm on Players Like this and always will even though You as the AFF did No marketing to get the Player into Our Group we did that By sending the Magazine?
Should we not pay Comm on these players I think Not this is Fair so we will Pay even though The player belongs to us as we bought him in
I Just Need to add one Last Point to This to Show you that Single Sign on is Not that Bad for Affiliates and we are Not Stealing But beeing Rather Fair Take this Example.
1) Player signs Up on the 01 Jan 2007 via BV magazine to BV
2) Player then Goes to Affiliate A and downloads CGB on 22 Jan 2007
3) Player then Downloads a 3rd Casino from Affiliate B On the 1 March 2007Then By all Rights You as the Affiliate Did No Marketing to Bring The player to Our Group we did this Via sending a Magazine to a Database we had Bought from a 3rd Party
WE would not have to Pay comm to Affiliate A or Affiliate B as we did all the Marketing and Bought The player In from our Own Marketing Campaigns and he signed up with us First Before going anf finding our Links on the Affiliate Sites
But we DO pay Comm on Players Like this and always will even though You as the AFF did No marketing to get the Player into Our Group we did that By sending the Magazine?
Should we not pay Comm on these players I think Not this is Fair so we will Pay even though The player belongs to us as we bought him in
By all Rights You as the Affiliate Did No Marketing to Bring The player to Our Group we did this Via sending a Magazine to a Database we had Bought from a 3rd Party
sorry M but I disagree. You’d not have that player’s email addy if we hadn’t brought them in the first place so you could not cross promote to them.
Miles, affiliates need to protect themselves against theft.
I am not saying that your intention is to commit theft, but this business model makes it easy for any casino group to do.
The affiliate brings the player, GP crosspromotes the player to another casino the week after.
Now GP doesn’t have to pay anymore comissions to the affiliate.
Affiliates call this theft.
With such a business model, the only feasible way to go for an affiliate is CPA.
Im glad my old players are safe, my new ones can sign up elsewhere.
wow, this is one big thread and just yesterday it was 3 pages! I see it has now been clarified and i agree with the majority that cross promotion is bad.. very bad for affiliates.
I am 100% certain that as a casino group you would want to introduce new promotions at the different 6 casinos. That is business but at the same time it is stealing our players from one casino to another (if promo is attractive)
Hence, i HOPE no other Microgaming casino i promote follows in that model.
I guess the solution would be to join affiliate programs that have single casinos under their belt and skip the issue all together should more programs follow.
Cross promotion is fine, desireable even, IF it includes the tag of the affiliate who originated the player.
Perhaps GP will go back to the drawing board and fix things.
Affiliates should always OWN the email address used at the first casino period.
If they correct this issue I can add them back to active status.
Miles
Why on earth you work for an online casino group instead of going into politics baffles me. I have never seen anyone elude a simple straight forward question the way you have in this thread. I now know why most will be removing all casinos within the GP group.
Dom asked:
“If a player downloads casino A from my site, and subsequently is cross promoted by GP to casino B, do I get credit for both casinos?”Now why do you insist on involving a 2’nd affiliate into this answer, the whole point is the GP group, not a 2’nd affiliate.
You are basicly screwing all affiliates this way. If 100 players download CGB through 100 different affiliates you at the same time get a nice e-mail list almost for free. All you then have to do is send out a very nice signup offer at Jupiter and these 100 players are suddenly tagged to YOU, NOT the affiliates that signed them up.
You then go on to say :
“It is up to the affiliate to make sure that their Player Purchases and Plays at the Brand you signed him Up at”
WTF, I always had the impression that that was the AM job, not ours!! But why should you, you just send him an incentive to one of the other casinos in the group and zip, the annoying affiliate inbetween is gone!
If you don’t have a very straight forward answer to this then I guess you are in for a nice and bumpy ride.
If a casino group tries to get a player – Referred by an affiliate – by bonus emails with sister casino links in it – for the obvious reason not having to pay the commission, this is simply not done.
YOU WILL LOOSE THIS PLAYER FOR LIFE if he/she get’s a better deal at another casino.
I think that is one reason why you see big whales come and go.
-If this players is referred by another affiliate promoting the same group but a different casino this is fair IMO, otherwise this player is of no use if he/she visits your site and decides to play at this different casino.
-If you send a player to a casino with bottom links to the sisters without your affiliate code in it this is a reason to worry too –> Rewardsaffiliates does this but the chance that this happens would be very small, as they say, you bet!
a referred player to a casino = yours not the (ugly) sisters.
This always has been IMO.
Regards
RickThis thread should be nominated the most interesting thread of the Year.:3eyes:
@Chill 151546 wrote:
Miles
Why on earth you work for an online casino group instead of going into politics baffles me. I have never seen anyone elude a simple straight forward question the way you have in this thread. I now know why most will be removing all casinos within the GP group.
Dom asked:
“If a player downloads casino A from my site, and subsequently is cross promoted by GP to casino B, do I get credit for both casinos?”Now why do you insist on involving a 2’nd affiliate into this answer, the whole point is the GP group, not a 2’nd affiliate.
You are basicly screwing all affiliates this way. If 100 players download CGB through 100 different affiliates you at the same time get a nice e-mail list almost for free. All you then have to do is send out a very nice signup offer at Jupiter and these 100 players are suddenly tagged to YOU, NOT the affiliates that signed them up.
You then go on to say :
“It is up to the affiliate to make sure that their Player Purchases and Plays at the Brand you signed him Up at”
WTF, I always had the impression that that was the AM job, not ours!! But why should you, you just send him an incentive to one of the other casinos in the group and zip, the annoying affiliate inbetween is gone!
If you don’t have a very straight forward answer to this then I guess you are in for a nice and bumpy ride.
hehehe agreed – i couldnt believe it when i kept reading those large replies and avoiding the question…..especially when its just a Yes or No answer
for a group to cross promote and not credit the affiliate is a joke !
If i find out anyone else doing it, i will drop them also !i see lots of cross promoting at other programs i promote as i can see many revs coming in from casinos that i dont actually promote in the group – so this would stealing from the affiliate as far as im (the affiliate) concerned – so its only my opinion tha counts with regards if its stealing or not.
Dominique – I have to say, I’m completely amazed by how long it has taken to answer your very simple question.
I found your question completely transparent and unambiguous
My feeling is in agreement with others here – if I spend a lot of time, energy and hard work (and sometimes money) acquiring a player for a group, then to have that group cross-promote to that player with a simple, (no effort) email and for me to lose the commission for life is absurd.
Who in their right mind would promote the group with that in mind?
I could understand a sliding scale, whereby the affiliate gets, say, 10% less commission for the other group casinos – say 35%, for the initial casino and 25% for the others, but not a situation where you basically lose the player completely.
It seems to me this would be a fair solution:
If Affiliate A signs up a NEW player to Casino 1 then he gets credit at casino 1 and all future cross promotion that GP does.
If Affiliate B signs up an EXISTING player to Casino 3 then he gets credit only at casino 3.
That way, the FIRST affiliate to bring the NEW PLAYER to the GP group gets credit for all cross promotion from the GP group. The only way this first affiliate can loose a potential commission is if another affiliate brings that player to another casino.
Make sense?
There are currently two acceptable business models:
1. The player belongs to the affiliate who first sends them to the group, period.
2. The player belongs to the affiliate who first sends him to the group, unless he is sent to a sister casino by another affiliate.
Which one of these an affiliate prefers is a personal matter, both are legitimate.
In both models, the affiliate is credited for referrals (cross promotions) by the casino group itself.
If the casino group can freely cross promote (= move players from casino to casino) without crediting the referring affiliate, it is considered theft. The group can now move the player away from the affiliate any time they please and cease to pay commissions. This is not acceptable.
Very simple and straight forward.
What we don’t know for sure is whether this cross referring without affiliate credit is integral to the microgaming package offered to operators as “single sign on”. We will yet have to determine that.
I hope it isn’t. If it is though, it needs to be fixed.
