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cpays wrote:Hi Engineer,
Your questions are always welcome, that’s what this forum is for. As to the answers:
1. We will investigate the case, examine all the data and then reach a conclusion (a bit “Sherlock-y” but we do not want to accuse anyone of anything before they’re proven guilty as charged). We will then contact the affiliate and ask him politely to remove the stolen content or take any other action that is relevant to the specific case. Paragraph 3.5 of our terms and conditions covers this issue, and in fact has been created following questions such as yours in this very forum. You can view the paragraph here: http://cpays.com/terms.php
2. We do not believe that banning the affiliate will solve the spam issue. If we ban him he will still steal your content, but instead of putting our banners on his site he will put up banners of a spam supporting affiliate program and continue to receive commission for your work. We believe that the online gambling industry should take responsibility and try to help those affiliates to realize their potential through white-hat SEO methods. This is the real challenge. Banning someone is a matter of seconds, helping someone to amend his ways takes time and perseverance. I believe that CPays as one of the industry leaders is ready to take that challenge and put in that extra time and set new industry standards.
I hope this answers your questions.
Best Regards,
Ora
ora at cpays.com
http://www.cpays.com:capmiami:
Hey ORA depending on time I will save you the trouble of investigations. I will post it junk right here or on some blog somewhere.
Furthermore the new terms are welcomed so now what recourse do the black hat community have that you so candily invited in. I guess we all surfer due to your actions. greek39
cpays wrote:Hi Engineer,2. We do not believe that banning the affiliate will solve the spam issue. If we ban him he will still steal your content, but instead of putting our banners on his site he will put up banners of a spam supporting affiliate program and continue to receive commission for your work.
This is just the point – why would you want to be one of the spam supporting companies? In otherwords, you are basically saying that the blackhatter will just go to another casino that supports his ways of marketing and you would rather not lose him. It almost sounds as if you “already” know that these guys just move on to another affiliate program.
With this said, I am sure now, that I would not ever want to work with you guys. Sorry.
Cpays, your reply to my questions were simply pathetic. What I get from your response is that you basically are afraid of banning them because they will simply move to another program that does support BH techniques. Do you really think they are going to one day just wake up and stop what they are doing just because they feel like being a good person? I think not. They are going to continue doing what they are doing because you can’t turn away the money they generate for you. It’s obvious this is what you are doing and you might as well stop sugar coating it and come out and tell everyone this is how you operate. Some idustry leader. (sarcasm)
greek39 wrote:Hey ORA depending on time I will save you the trouble of investigations. I will post it junk right here or on some blog somewhere.That’s exactly what should happen, expose them as others have been; show that the promising words are just that words without true meaning.
@axl]That’s exactly what should happen, expose them as others have been show that the promising words are just that words without true meaning.[/QUOTE wrote:
I agree, I will try and have some junk posted tonight. Trivia FullTilt poker is going black hat. greek39
This is my opinion guys….
I believe that this is at least a start. Unless and until we find more new domains that promote CPays brands, we should at least give them a little bit of credit for admitting mistakes and attempting to rectify those mistakes.
I do not believe that giving the SPAMMERS a cease and desist is enough, however. I, like everyone else on board here, knows that the only way that CPays should deal with the individuals is to confiscate their earnings and close their accounts.
CPays – please comment on this as a better way to solve this problem. It IS to your benefit as you can easily point to T&C’s and then not have to pay them at all. You make more money and, at the same time, gain a little more of our trust back.
Thanks everyone. Greek – if you have some damning evidence, please post tonight so we can find out a little more about whom we are dealing with.
Well its’ 1:30 A.M Israel is only 600 miles away, but I will attempt a hunt. greek39
First I’ll duck,
Then I’ll say that I still promote CPays, I’ve complained here about things I wasn’t happy with, they changed, I PMed once asking for a new affiliate manager, and although the process didn’t happen as smoothly as I’d have liked, it did happen.
I’ve been reading this thread daily, but since I didn’t have much relevant to say, decided to keep quiet. I do want to comment on a statement by CPays however…
Firstly, you mentioned that webmasters have chimed in and joined the CPays blacklist, that still currently promote 888. If I were you, I’d pay some special attention to those webmasters. I think you’re very wrong here, if there are people going to the trouble to create rouge pages just for the backline, those probably aren’t the people. I do believe the backlink for rouging 888 is still available. So why did they choose to blacklist CPays? What is it they are unhappy about?
If you look back to last month, I myself didn’t receive a CPays payment.. after a question and an email, i was reminded to update a NETeller addy, and waluah problem solved. You might be alienating some good affiliates here over simple misunderstandings, might at least be worth an email… I notice you have us blacklisted.. What can we do? etc.
I myself rouged 888.com; it had nothing to do with me personally. I’d read for months how they treated other affiliates, damage caused, thread after thread, when the blacklist idea came about, I couldn’t get the pages up fast enough, in support of my friends here at CAP.
Later, I was talking with a friend in an instant messenger window, and he asked what I thought of the whole thing. Not real sure where he stood on the matter, I jokingly said “hey the backlinks are great”. Now realistically, I think the page got a whopping PR of 2.
My friend’s stance on the matter was that he also didn’t have personal issue with 888… but in support of others that had previously support him, he felt VERY strongly about it!
I’m personally not ready to blacklist CPays; the blacklist thread actually came to quite a surprise to me. I read pretty much every msg posted on CAP every day. I had read the complaints here about the SEO contest, and then very shortly thereafter BAM, I read the blacklist thread. I still feel very strongly that we all need to support each other here, as affiliates, as friends, etc. However, i didn’t see a fair warning, and think we might be jumping the gun here…
Without having seen the warning posts, I decided to be quiet, i must have missed something big, but I still don’t see it..
I believe you Dom when you say you have been commenting for months, but having my own troubles with CPays at the time; it seems that I would have noticed serious warnings, and I just don’t recall anything catching my attention ..
IMO, welcome CPays, it took ya forever to get here! However, I am impressed by the response! This is a forum, a community, where friendships that are very real are created. The funny part is that sometimes you read so many posts by someone, you may never even respond to them.. but eventually you connect, you notice that persons name, and you read what they say… must make it hard to be an affiliate manager here, when tempers flair, and all of those forum friends, that you hear from nearly daily, get angry at your program.. alla sudden, you’re a bull’s-eye!
I know I’m getting a little off track here, and hope that what I’m trying to say is getting through somewhere.
In my reality, it’s a contest, I can see why CAPsters disagree with it, I can see the damage it can do. However, i just don’t see that as the intention when the contest was introduced.
cpays wrote:2. We do not believe that banning the affiliate will solve the spam issue. If we ban him he will still steal your content, but instead of putting our banners on his site he will put up banners of a spam supporting affiliate program and continue to receive commission for your work. We believe that the online gambling industry should take responsibility and try to help those affiliates to realize their potential through white-hat SEO methods. This is the real challenge. Banning someone is a matter of seconds, helping someone to amend his ways takes time and perseverance. I believe that CPays as one of the industry leaders is ready to take that challenge and put in that extra time and set new industry standards.As faults of Cpays, this has always been a biggy with me… I like what you’re sayin’ here. Yes teach the new affiliate how to create, build and promote their own site. I get that. However, every penny they earned from stolen content, is in fact, stolen money. If you used someone else’s work to earn the money, well then that’s their money, dontchya think?
This isn’t a “Cpays only” practice, I’ve read it a million times. It takes time to shut down the offending site. No we don’t want to ban them etc… but I still don’t understand why the programs do not simply move the earnings from the offending affiliate, to the affilate who’s work earned the profit. By not doing so, you are indeed adding to the problem.
And do not tell me that you can’t figure out who had the content first. Everytime I mention a name to an affiliate manager, they know just who I’m talking about..
I say I need images for some reviews that ‘bob’ ordered, they say, oh I know bob, he owns blahblah.com.
Three or four times a week I get comments about my own sites from affiliate managers.. I like this update, I like that, but we’re not up high enough. How come you’re holding this tournament and not ours.. you see our sites
.. I imagine you know your big earners sites almost as well as they do 
~LadyH
We do not believe that banning the affiliate will solve the spam issue. If we ban him he will still steal your content, but instead of putting our banners on his site he will put up banners of a spam supporting affiliate program and continue to receive commission for your work. We believe that the online gambling industry should take responsibility and try to help those affiliates to realize their potential through white-hat SEO methods. This is the real challenge. Banning someone is a matter of seconds, helping someone to amend his ways takes time and perseverance. I believe that CPays as one of the industry leaders is ready to take that challenge and put in that extra time and set new industry standards.
I agree that if you ban the affiliate, he will move on to a spam supporting affiliate program. But from that point on they are not your responsibility. We then report them to that affiliate program. If they don’t drop him, then we rogue them. If enough programs kick him out, he has nobody left to promote.
These scrapers know exactly what they are doing. They are unscrupulous, dishonest people. They are NOT newbies. So how do you expect them to amend their ways? Just because you ask them to?
I say close their account and give their commission to either the affiliate stolen from or donate it to Gamcare or something like that.
Ora I am happy to see that Casino Pays is committed to helping us deal with the problems being created by Black Hatters. To establish yourselves as industry leaders it’s important that you support positive change within the business and help the affiliate community clean up this mess that’s been created by a few bad apples.
That being said I want to bring attention to this statement and ask that you re-examine this issue:
Quote:2. We do not believe that banning the affiliate will solve the spam issue. If we ban him he will still steal your content, but instead of putting our banners on his site he will put up banners of a spam supporting affiliate program and continue to receive commission for your work.As long as there is a profit incentive provided by affiliate programs then blackhatters will continue to be a major problem for all of us. By removing that profit incentive the black hat webmaster WILL move on and thats exactly what we want them to do; move on…. If all repsonsible programs ban affiliates which do this stuff then they will go to a different industry all together or move to white hat methods as it’s the only way they can earn revenues in ours. As long as you (or any legitimate program) pay them they will NOT modify their behavior. They will not have any incentive to do so.
We view Affiliate Programs which support our business and demand responsible and ethical behavior of their partners as the real Industry Leaders.
We view programs which knowingly work with the black hat sector as Rogues.
To say “We will accept these stolen revenues from the black hatters because if we don’t they will only give them to someone else” is a flawed view and will neither help the situation, nor will it establish Casino Pays as leaders. Instead it puts you firmly in the Rogue camp and makes you a threat to legitimate affiliates and the industry as a whole.
I KNOW that is not your intent, so we respectfully ask that you bring this crucial issue up with management for an acceptable resolution.
To say “We will accept these stolen revenues from the black hatters because if we don’t they will only give them to someone else” is a flawed view and will neither help the situation, nor will it establish Casino Pays as leaders. Instead it puts you firmly in the Rogue camp and makes you a threat to legitimate affiliates and the industry as a whole.
Well said Professor!:clapper:
i like the post very much Prof!
(im sure Dom likes it also)Excellent post couldn’t have explained it better myself!! thanks that exactly what I would want. greek39
I agree with LadyHoldem – nothing big had happened to blacklist a program…The SEO contest – I dont like it, but I am glad that CPAYS did not choose “onlie casinos” as the keyword (variation of it, but not the exact one).
Also – I agree with CPAYS that it is better to work with a bad affiliate than just dump it – couse it will easily move to a different program and it will double the spam without any chance of recovery.
When you have worked hard to get an affiliate – it is just plain wrong to just dump it. And every time I see my content stollen by an afiliate of CPAYS – I contact my manager and within a day – my content is removed from that site. And I think this is great, because if this affiliate was part of a different aff program – I would have not had the chance to get this fixed.Blacklisting the casinos because Bozo had stolen your content – I dont think so. Cpays draws a lot of affiliates (good and bad) because the casinos convert very well. And they do because people like them. And if people like them – it’s wrong to blacklist them for any personal reason – just stop advertising them if you dont like the program.
The way I see it – this thread is full of personal grudges and has nothing to do with spam. Because 2-3 people who post very agressivly in this thread could easily be qualified as spammers, and I can post the backlinks of some of their websites and then – you will see real blog spammers
:withstupi
I was looking forward to see what the Professor will have to say about Cpays post.
Even though i am very unhappy with the Black Hatters problem, i couldn’t help smiling when i saw this post. It instantly reminded me programs/ talk shows {like Jay Leno’s “The Tonight Show”} when the host shows “What they say” text and then shows “What they really mean” and provides a funnier version.
So please, read it with at least a little sense of humor and nonsense.
What They Say wrote:1. We will investigate the case, examine all the data and then reach a conclusion (a bit “Sherlock-y” but we do not want to accuse anyone of anything before they’re proven guilty as charged). We will then contact the affiliate and ask him politely to remove the stolen content or take any other action that is relevant to the specific case. Paragraph 3.5 of our terms and conditions covers this issue, and in fact has been created following questions such as yours in this very forum. You can view the paragraph here: http://cpays.com/terms.phpIs actually
What They Mean wrote:1. We will take a quick look at the complaint, examine how profitable is the specified affiliate and then reach the conclusion of our liking. We do not want to accuse anyone of anything before we make sure we didn’t earn a dime from that affiliate. We will then contact the affiliate and ask him politely to remove the stolen content or take any other action that is relevant to the specific case such as raising the affiliate commission while telling you we failed to reach him. Paragraph 3.5 of our terms and conditions covers this issue, and in fact has made us create the equation of (money we earned * time took to earn it = How polite we will be towards the affiliate).The second paragraph
What They Say wrote:2. We do not believe that banning the affiliate will solve the spam issue. If we ban him he will still steal your content, but instead of putting our banners on his site he will put up banners of a spam supporting affiliate program and continue to receive commission for your work. We believe that the online gambling industry should take responsibility and try to help those affiliates to realize their potential through white-hat SEO methods. This is the real challenge. Banning someone is a matter of seconds, helping someone to amend his ways takes time and perseverance. I believe that CPays as one of the industry leaders is ready to take that challenge and put in that extra time and set new industry standards.Is actually
What They Mean wrote:2. We know exactly how to stop the spam issue, but we would like you to believe that banning the affiliate will not solve the spam issue. If we ban him then we might earn less money and we really don’t like the idea. Hey, wait a minute… If we ban him, he will still steal your content, but instead of putting our banners on his site he will put up banners of a spam supporting affiliate program and continue to receive commission for your work. NO WAY !! Why should another industry leading program get its banners displayed when the spammer has chosen us first?? { No, don’t say that.. quick.. make up a story..} We believe that the online gambling industry should take responsibility and try to help those affiliates to realize their potential through white-hat SEO methods. This is the real challenge. Banning someone is a matter of seconds, helping someone to amend his ways takes time and perseverance. I believe that CPays as one of the industry leaders is ready to take that challenge and put in that extra time and set new industry standards. Moreover, We will buy computer for every child in the world, stop cutting the rain forests. and bring peace to the world. Yes, as an industry leader we will strive to help every humen being to realize their potential through. We know it’s easy to send murderers to the electric chair.. it’s a matter of seconds, helping someone to amend his ways takes time and perseverance. I believe that CPays as one of the industry leaders is ready to take that challenge and put in that extra time and set new world standards.{Hehe..they’ll buy it and we will keep doing nothing :woohoo: }
Reminder: please, read it with at least a little sense of humor and nonsense.
