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I didn’t blacklist cpays but wrote an article about the situation.
In my opinion this is something between the casinos, webmasters and last but not least Google.I think not promoting cpays is effective enough, so I removed the last cpays casino, Playgate, from my pages. Blacklisting these casinos as rogue will scare
the players and inforce the negative image of the industry as a whole, therefore I think this is a bit too much of the good.Dominique, I used your firstname in the article saying the initiative was yours.
If you want it removed just let me know.The article can be found at:
http://www.casino-gids.be/online/casino/blacklist-casino-pays-rogue.phpcheers,
Jonitas
jonitas wrote:I didn’t blacklist cpays but wrote an article about the situation.
In my opinion this is something between the casinos, webmasters and last but not least Google.I think not promoting cpays is effective enough, so I removed the last cpays casino, Playgate, from my pages. Blacklisting these casinos as rogue will scare
the players and inforce the negative image of the industry as a whole, therefore I think this is a bit too much of the good.Jonitas – with all due respect, you couldn’t be any further from the truth. The blackhatting “webmasters” CPays is involved with, rewards them 10 fold so by merely not promoting them, will not be beneficial to us at all. By blacklisting and rogue[ing] them, then our pages will be seen by the engine goers and signups will decrease. Then CPays will think twice about their practices.
CPays paid me $$ to redo my home page and promote them exclusively. My mgr wasn’t pleased about their tactics, and suggested I remove certian portions of the source coding. He is no longer w/ them and when I removed their links after 4 months and our deal was for 2 months, I now see my commissions are at a neg level and it’s not from any players. When I change the member name and 2 weeks later it’s back to the default and I need to change it again – these practices are illegal in any other type of business.You complain they take your money away – you kiss their:shakebutt and they shower you with gifts.
It needs to be nipped now
I have placed article portions on my site at
http://luckylady.tv/cpays.html
that link back to –
http://www.gamesandcasino.com/blacklist/cpays-blacklisted.htm
http://www.knowwhentohold.com/bad-sites/cpays-affiliated-casinos
http://www.hotpokerbonus.com/cpays_online_casinos.php
http://www.slotsonfire.com/cpays-casinos-spam.html
roguecasinos.wordpress.com/2006/08/10/cpayscom-and-its-casinos-are-rogueCpays, why does your company do such stupid things. Can’t you learn from history about what happened to 888.com? YOU are going to fall just like they are. There is no reason to copycat the biggest spammer and trash casino on earth just because they are big, you are just copying their downfall and casino pays will fall just like 888 – Again, why are you so stupid to not learn from history, what you are doing is a bad business decision. Looks like the end of an era for some of these casinos, time to bring in a new era of casinos to take your spot and 888’s spot becasue your company isn’t going to last much longer with the way your going. Either your place is stupid or you have a bunch of corrupt conmen running the show that doesn’t care about the future of this company.
Removed cpays banner from all pages today and put up a blacklist page at:
http://www.toponlinecasinos.cc/cpays_blacklisted.php.
Webmasters, please add me to your sites.
Dom – I have been following your site by adding new links as you add them since you are keeping on top of this. Hope you don’t mind.
Hello all,
I will try to set things straight as much as possible with this post, even though I do feel that I will have to do it in the middle of the town’s square while ducking from the things being thrown at me.
I know I have promised an answer about the SEO contest, which due to the situation in Israel is taking a bit longer than I’ve expected. This was not an attempt to escape from taking responsibility. Your comments were duly noted and things were set in motion. A meeting was set for this Tuesday to try and resolve this issue and set some guidelines for future contests and spam handling. This is why our entire team and I were quite shocked of your eagerness to blacklist CPays.
I find this decision even more appalling since some of the “blood-eager” blacklisters are still promoting 888 brands, and others are not doing it for some ideological reasons but simply to benefit from the link exchange or for the shear fun of it. CPays has come a long way in the past year, and some of it was thanks to your help. I am not saying that things are perfect, but we are getting there. I will just give you a tip of the iceberg to prove that this forum has made a difference. The scrapers rule was set following the discussion in CAP, and so was the negative balance rule, on which I will elaborate further in the relevant post. There are many other examples, but they are not the point of this post.
By banning CPays from CAP you will close a very important (at least to us) communication channel that has proven itself over and over. CPays is one of the leaders of this industry and as such is not afraid of taking responsibility for its actions. Some changes take more time than others but believe me; your comments do not go unnoticed.
I will close this by saying that even though I am new in this forum, it is not new to me. I have witnessed firsthand the changes you brought to and others that were initiated by the great team I am proud to be a part of. An affiliate program is a partnership and I believe that as every partnership it too has its ups and downs, and I know that we will work those issues out if you will give us the time.
And just to make sure that this is not misinterpreted or misquoted and such, I want to say that in no way should this post be seen as a negative criticism. I have tried to show here CPays’ appreciation for your time, effort and initiative, and I believe that with your help CPays will be able to become the Affiliate Program it strives to be. I will post an update after the meeting and will keep you informed of any further developments.
Thank you again for your time and dedication,
Ora
ora at cpays.com
http://www.cpays.com:capmiami:
voovoo wrote:Jonitas – with all due respect, you couldn’t be any further from the truth. The blackhatting “webmasters” CPays is involved with, rewards them 10 fold so by merely not promoting them, will not be beneficial to us at all. By blacklisting and rogue[ing] them, then our pages will be seen by the engine goers and signups will decrease. Then CPays will think twice about their practices.Voovoo, I understand your point and have a lot of respect for the aproach of blacklisting cpays. Mine is different as I get a bit more irritaded by google than by Cpays. The following site getting top rankings : xhttp:/wiki.infogami.com/_edit/discussions?r=11
is just ridiculous.voovoo wrote:CPays paid me $$ to redo my home page and promote them exclusively. My mgr wasn’t pleased about their tactics, and suggested I remove certian portions of the source coding. He is no longer w/ them and when I removed their links after 4 months and our deal was for 2 months, I now see my commissions are at a neg level and it’s not from any players. When I change the member name and 2 weeks later it’s back to the default and I need to change it again – these practices are illegal in any other type of business.That’s something I wasn’t aware of, it’s pathetic. If you would look for a casino and affiliate program that works 100% ethical Bodog is the closest you can get I think. The best part are in a grey zone, and some in the black. The question is: where do you draw the line? I would blacklist cpays immediately if they harm there players. If it’s true what some people say, that they encourage email spamming this would be over the line, but until now I didn’t see any evidence of it (and i receive plenty of spam in a certain email adress)
So if anyone can show me proof of this or show me other sources where people complain about this,
it’s much appreciated.Jonitas
@Jonitas-Jonathan: Your opinion is very much appreciated by me, dank u .
@Ora: Seems a quiet marketplace here, hehe, thx for answering here on the forum. Brave and very g00d post!
Guess we will wait to see what comes out the meeting on thuesday….
but……..
I didnt like these words:”“blood-eager” blacklisters are still promoting 888 brands, and others are not doing it for some ideological reasons but simply to benefit from the link exchange or for the shear fun of it”
i quote yourself:”no way should this post be seen as a negative criticism”
@Dom:http://elgoognl.blogspot.com/voovoo wrote:I have placed article portions on my site at
http://luckylady.tv/cpays.html
that link back to –
http://www.gamesandcasino.com/blacklist/cpays-blacklisted.htm
http://www.knowwhentohold.com/bad-sites/cpays-affiliated-casinos
http://www.hotpokerbonus.com/cpays_online_casinos.php
http://www.slotsonfire.com/cpays-casinos-spam.html
roguecasinos.wordpress.com/2006/08/10/cpayscom-and-its-casinos-are-roguejust copy all her links:)
Hi elgoog,
Thanks for your comment. About the “blood-eager” blacklisters, the facts are true, maybe the expression is a bit too harsh though. If you read all the posts in this thread you do get the “let’s go kill the ogre” kind of vibe (guess I’ve seen Shrek too many times :3eyes: ) . I guess that eagerness just got to me a bit. And I know all about business not being personal and all, it’s just that I do care deeply about my work and the company I work in, and I believe in its potential. I think that with your and the rest of the forum participants’ help we can bring CPays to realize that potential, and make CPays the prime choice Affiliate Program it should be.
Thanks again for your feedback,
Ora
ora at cpays.com
http://www.cpays.com:capmiami:
cpays wrote:Thanks for your comment. About the “blood-eager” blacklisters, the facts are true, maybe the expression is a bit too harsh though. If you read all the posts in this thread you do get the “let’s go kill the ogre” kind of vibe (guess I’ve seen Shrek too many times :3eyes: ) .
Ora,
With all the respect, I think that the majority of CAP members are far from being “blood-eager”. If there are a few that have banned 888 for links trade and still promote 888.com, i am sure it’s just about a few that do not represent the atmosphere around here.If you would have follow all the 888.com issues carefully, you would notice CAP was more than patient.. CAP was SUPER PATIENT until the last resort was banning 888.com. Frankly speaking, if it was up to me. 888.com would have been blacklisted much earlier for what it has done. Therefor, the last thing you can say about CAP is “blood-eager”
cpays wrote:I guess that eagerness just got to me a bit. And I know all about business not being personal and all, it’s just that I do care deeply about my work and the company I work in, and I believe in its potential. I think that with your and the rest of the forum participants’ help we can bring CPays to realize that potential, and make CPays the prime choice Affiliate Program it should be.Thanks again for your feedback,
Cpays has conducted 2 so-called “SEO Contests” and for a long while showed it responds tremendously slowly to posts about spammers and scrapers while other respectable programs responded within hours, for cpays it took days to respond and promise acting.
Cpays is now required to act and act FAST. no serious hard working affiliate will promote a program that do not protect his interests. Once your blacklisting has started rolling it means you have broke the camel’s back and only acting promptly will help saving what’s left out of your reputation.
Blacklisting is not easy, trust me. It’s not easy to go all over your sites and remove banners, reviews, forum threads etc. that’s a lot of work. i am sure no one is glad to do that.
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don’t Talk!!!
Quote:By banning CPays from CAP you will close a very important (at least to us) communication channel that has proven itself over and over. CPays is one of the leaders of this industry and as such is not afraid of taking responsibility for its actions. Some changes take more time than others but believe me; your comments do not go unnoticed.CPays is NOT under consideration for decertification at this time. This was a MAJOR concern of mine when this thread was started. Dominique unilaterally decided she was blacklisting Casino Pays, she did NOT discuss this with me and I was rather annoyed that a moderator would take that sort of action at CAP without first discussing it with me. The problem that arose is this, people now have the misconception that CAP took an action against CPays and that this wasnt a member who decided to adopt this position.
Guys CPays has been responsive to our requests for support. They also indicated that they were examining this SEO contest issue and would make adjustments to weed out problems. Rather then work towards that end Dom decided she prefered to go on the offensive. That’s her right to do as an individual and I have no problem with her posting something to that effect, BUT I don’t want it miconstrued that this is CAP’s position, because its definitely NOT.
In the past we have ALWAYS worked WITH our certified partners to effect a positive resolution to any problems, that’s our stated and acting policy. It’s one that has proven itself to be effective time and time again.
We NEVER went off on crusades to blacklist and rogue our partners at the first sign of a problem until VERY recently and I am remiss for NOT stepping in sooner. I have been tied up with moving into a new home and developing our retail network and have NOT been as attentive as I should have been to everything that goes on here. In that absence I have seen a sea change, so to speak, here at CAP that IS developing. A mindset of waiting for the next person to pounce on and blacklist and rogue and cross link into the mud!! And that is NOT what we do here! It’s going to stop.
Do we want CPays to work with us to ensure that their affiliates promote the brands responsibly? Yes, absolutely!!!
Will we tolerate Content Theft? Hell No, Absolutely NOT!
But we are NOT going to lynch them for running an SEO contest! This is absurd! Let’s get back to reality here and stop this crap.
Let’s get back on track and get back to the spirit of working WITH programs to solve problems and AWAY from the spirit of laying in wait for the next person to rogue or blacklist at the least sign of disagrement.
I need to stress again, I am a volunteer moderator here and that is all. I do not have any ties with CAP other than that, and my posts here are to be taken the same way as the ones I make at Casinomeister or Winneronline – my personal opinions and actions.
I never said we should ban CPays, I think communication is always the right way if there is an issue that can be fixed.
I think that Cpays spamming of the engines is despicable and that is my personal opinion and I have taken my personal actions. As a menber of this board and community, I posted here. I coinsider that to be the purpose of a message board, for individuals to voice their opinions, and since this is a professional board and not some slugfest, a very major purpose is to resolve issues.
I had been making posts about this in a friendly, nonconfrontational way for months and nothing happened and no one replied or took it seriously.
It is in my opinion the biggest threat to the extinction of affiliates we have and is extremely serious, and I took personal action to draw attention to it and to try to stop it from getting worse and worse.
Again, all my posts are my personal opinion and in no way represent CAP.
Only the Professor and war represent CAP.
Perhaps I review the history of this program, “cpays”. A shaddy one to say the least, that I do know for a fact. Cpays has caused manipulative tidel waves throughout the World Wide Web.
For me personally its’ not just about the latest wave to come through, the seo contest, but many other issues that seem to go unanswered. Having a channel of communcation is important if standing isssues are rectified. I find many paralles between Shelley from 888 and Ora from cpays. They are both kept in the dark about the true nature of the “beast”.
But be that as it may, I respect your view Professor I will be tolerate and destain from taking action. I was never challeging thier certification, but desired answers and action takin.
greek39
I agree that the lines of communication should remain open.
I also believe strongly that action must be taken to remove all this SPAM or they are no better than the spammers themselves. I would NOT recommend a casino where unethical business practices are employed on the marketing end.
Being unethical does NOT stop at any specific point and it could just as easily follow to players. I would not want to be part of an organization if there is the remote possibility that they would treat players I send to them poorly. What is the point of that really???
Professor,
Dom hasn’t said a thing about Cpays certification, I think that if some people now have the misconception that CAP took an action against CPays and that this wasnt a member who decided to adopt this position… It’s not Dom to blaim but those people who rush to jump to conclusions.No one has said that CAP has removed nor should remove the certification. I believe we all hope that Cpays will address all the issues that have been brought up promptly.
No one can ignore the amount of response Dom’s post has got, I am sure that it’s not because of people being striving for a link with a possible future PR4 page with so many other links. The reason for this link fest is as simple as Dom and others described it.
For months webmasters here at CAP complain about Cpays spam issues, the same webmasters who pay the price of their serps degraded. I am among these webmasters.. So are you. Since it has been so long and without real resolution, Dom has stood up to protect her income. I feel that this is more than justified. If talking stop help, maybe actions will.
This has to be stopped one way or another, Cpays can stop it and i hope they will. If they will stop this, then there’s no real problem.
At the bottom line,
Like Dom said, Cpays should not be banned if things can be fixed as it will do more harm than benefit to both parties. However the clock is ticking and the Cpays forum here on CAP fills with more and more complaints.Ora wrote:
I think that with your and the rest of the forum participants’ help we can bring CPays to realize that potential, and make CPays the prime choice Affiliate Program it should be.Frankly speaking, I judge programs firstly by their forum here.. if it’s full of complaints… I move forward. if it’s empty.. then there are no complaints.
Cpays, collecting complains alone can scare away any future affiliate more than any black listing or any other act.
It’s not the certification or communication channel, Cpays forum, all the complains, this thread and the response it got.. that’s one hell of a big shining red light Cpays should worry about.. nothing else.
Remember, You can always easily give and take certifications and awards and easily open and close communication channels…. Have you ever tried to recover a bad reputation? Rest Assured… It’s Awful.
