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Spearmaster wrote:Yeah, what happened to the IGC?
They ran into the same brick wall we did.
I have liked promoting these folks and was willing to give them a chance to fix things – that time of grace is now gone.
I am just getting finished removing pokers with rake back.
Switching out this many casinos – 4 programs – will also take me some time. Thankfully I have saved casino reviews as the last pages to add and that will at least save me replacing them.
I am still trying to figure out why Fortune is doing this to themselves. There are plenty other ways to nip and tuck expenses. Apparently they figure people will quit the program in disgust and then they don’t have to pay anything at all for the players we brought them.
They say they consulted with some affiliates before they did this. What they should have done is ask for input from all of us first, and then put up a poll with some of the points people would have made that fit their bill.
That would have scored points with the aff community, and I am willing to bet it would have brought results that did not include criminal action.
It’s never too late to fix things – but I think a lot of the good will has dissipated by now. It’s best to do the right thing in the first place.
I hear that meetings with some of the more vocal affiliates are being scheduled. Why do I think some candy will be handed out in order to shut some people up?
Quote:I hear that meetings with some of the more vocal affiliates are being scheduled.Nothing has been scheduled with me, and I seriously doubt whether one ever will be – and in fact, I plan to turn down any offers to meet unless they are going to tell me that they are going to revert to the original terms and conditions or at least pay us on a per-casino basis for those players delivered before July 1st.
Quote:Why do I think some candy will be handed out in order to shut some people up?That candy will have to have one hell of a kick in order to shut me up. And based on what they are earning from the players I have sent them, they can’t afford that candy :shakebutt :kissass:
Besides, they already had a chance before they implemented this – and based on the results (more like the LACK of results) from that meeting, I don’t expect that any better results will come from subsequent meetings.
So don’t bother to schedule a meeting. The most vocal affiliate (and one of the smallest) is not about to fold that easily. Better you do the right thing and fix the program.
Quote:I hear that meetings with some of the more vocal affiliates are being scheduled. Why do I think some candy will be handed out in order to shut some people up?If that were true then you and Spear should end up looking like this considering the amount of noise you guys generated:
Just remember to save a few bon bons for the rest of us :rollover:
LMFAO…
I’d love to know where you get your collection of pictures
Here’s a question. What will be the repercussions should the affiliates win this battle, causing the demise of many of these affiliate programs that cannot survive with the current terms and conditions (if this is in fact true).
Let’s hypothetically say that Fortune Affiliates goes under. Your affiliate agreement is with Fortune Affiliates and not with Fortune Lounge, so those players you referred are lost to you altogether. In that case would it not be better to accept the new terms than sink them and inevitably ourselves in the process.
Even worse, what if this scenario is indicative of the entire industry. There may be a lot more at stake here than meets the eye.
Let’s talk about reality first – not theory.
Neither Fortune Affiliates, nor any of the other offending programs, is anywhere in danger of going under. Not ONE of them. This is the bullshit they have been spewing in order to get you to feel sorry for them.
There are many other programs out there that do NOT resort to unethical strongarm tactics to try to increase their profitability. In fact, there are many programs out there who still pay per casino and are still profitable.
What they want to do is increase their profitability DRAMATICALLY. And the easiest way to do that is to screw the affiliates.
Now – in case anyone things VPL is going under – they and the casino management are one and the same – do NOT let them lead you to believe otherwise. If they are in danger of going under, then so are the casinos – and we all know that’s not true.
With regards to FL – without outright saying that the aff program and the casino management are one and the same, I can tell you with a reasonable amount of certainty that they are VERY closely related. And if there were any financial problems at the aff program, the casino program is more than strong enough to provide support – do not even begin to think otherwise.
When it comes to the state of the industry, I can emphatically tell you that I know exactly what is going on. I know who is profitable, and who is not. I stand up for improving this industry, not ruining it. And I know :bullshit: when I smell it.
Fortune affiliates themselves stated unequivocally at Casino Meister that they are in no monetary trouble at all. They just want more profit.
Vegas Partners just bought out one of the partners and also purchased Golden Stars. They are in no way suffering – they just want to be even more profitable.
I don’t see anyone going under anywhere.
If anyone truly was, I would hope they would know to come to us and we can work on it.
Andre, we work solely on performance so I think it impossible we would be the cause of anyone to go under.
We are the sweetest deal around.
No results = no pay
Please show me another source in the marketing world that will take such terms!
How about making a thread about them who didn´t change their program. Is there someone left?
Lots and oodles of good programs out there still.
I am starting to replace the ones who don’t honor contracts and am finding more than enough nice programs.
, we work solely on performance so I think it impossible we would be the cause of anyone to go under.
exactly!
here’s what I look to happen. programs changing terms retro will at first see a boost in income but it will be short-lived when later on the remaining affs who have not yet removed their links, will act and then whatever gain was made will be lost times multiplied and you will see a desperation act on their part to try and smooth things over with their affs.
which I hope nobody falls for.
How anybody with any knowledge about this niche at all can think that these properties are hurting for money is beyond my understanding.
Andre wrote:Let’s hypothetically say that Fortune Affiliates goes under. Your affiliate agreement is with Fortune Affiliates and not with Fortune Lounge, so those players you referred are lost to you altogether. In that case would it not be better to accept the new terms than sink them and inevitably ourselves in the process.Its a fair point Andre but in my short-lived experience, programs/casinos that have a good rep yet go into a slide usually get bought out and the affiliate agreements sold/xferred to other programs. IE: Adriches/CR.
Ok, so now we have Fortune, Referback, Vegas Partners, Partnerlogic and Wager Junction in breach of contract.
That is 5 programs.
This is going way too far, and first Fortune caught all the anger, and now Referback does, but we have 5 programs and we will soon have more and more if all 5 of these are not somehow dealt with.
This is a crime, not adhering to a contract is a crime.
If we let any of it stand, we are just setting precedent and everyone hereonafter can say: Well, so and so didn’t keep their cintract, and so and so didn’t keep their contract etc. Therefor it is normal in this industry to break contracts.
We will not have a legal leg to stand on. Programs can walk all over us.
I am getting very, very worried now!
OK – so we need to decide what we do.
Here’s my suggestion: We have a STICKY thread here at CAP called “Programs Who Have Breached Affiliate Agreements”, the first Post of which lists the operators who have applied Retro-active changes. It states the name of the group, the casinos/poker rooms they represent and the reason they are on the list.
Then, Affiliate Program Managers of other casinos/groups are invited to post to the thread to state on behalf of their company that they will NOT apply future changes to their conditions retroactively, so we know who we can represent safely.
We then have a second STICKY thread, a “petition” a-la Prof’s original idea at the meeting, where affiliates state that they will not be representing the casinos on the Retroactive thread.
Simple and effective in that any Affiliate stopping by knows the score and who they can trust from day one.
Wouldn’t the best thing to do be to squash this by referring no new players to them, period?
Take down the links in solidarity.
If you want to be taken seriously and not walked upon then you get a large group of high performing Affiliates and you take down these affiliate links. After a few months of not very good conversions I am sure that they will see things our way.
We have to be able to hold something over them or what’s next? Changing you from 30% to 5% on a whim retroactively to last month? Not paying at all? The only thing that we can hold over them is our supply of players really.
Perhaps it should be more of a privilege for programs to be represented by this group. A privelege that the casino programs must work and strive for and not be given control over.
Just think how rich we would make the few programs who did not breach their contracts. It would make other programs change their attitude and do the correct thing just to be a part of this – not dictating how it will go and attempting to shove it down our throats whether it is right or wrong and whether we like it or not. I am tired of just having to accept crap thrown down from them!
