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As the saying goes, “Actions speak louder than words”.
Kudos, Simmo.
I have already heard through the grapevine that they are worried, and that they have held another meeting here in Montreal. The reasoning, however, continues to be that they are no longer viable if they maintain the individual casino calculations.
One of these groups is spending $20 MILLION on advertising. Does this group REALLY think we are going to believe they are in financial trouble?
Shame on you. You can’t fool me and you know it – and I hope you will consider this before trying to give me this explanation in person, because I will simply take that as an insult to my intelligence and the appropriate actions will follow.
I repeat yet again – I support your right to move FORWARD with this action. I do NOT support your misguided belief that you have the right to make this action RETROACTIVE.
I have postponed changes until I return from Miami. For logistical reasons, but also because I think we are not done with this and there are one or two announcements of the same nature yet to come.
I am not 100% sure of this or of who it will be, but I am sure enough to postpone regrouping until I hear whether this will still happen or whether the reaction to the ones who already moved towards this will stop the others.
I think when this is all done, eCOGRA should be involved.
I have talked with both Fortune and Vegas Partner Lounge during my trip to Montreal.
To sum it up, both sides immediately played the partnership card, to which I replied that a partnership involves both sides agreeing on a solution, not something where one partner unilaterally makes a decision. I am especially perturbed that they can even call our agreement a partnership without making an effort to talk to us in a reasonable manner.
Both sides also claim that they talked with bigger affiliates about these changes before making them, implying that they had won some tacit approval of their actions. This is totally absurd, because a few bigger affiliates do not form the basis of their partnerships – nor do I believe they would even want to represent the affiliate community at large. Each affiliate is a partner – and each partner should be accorded similar respect, though of course I understand that the focus of their efforts is in appeasing these bigger affiliates who generate a large amount of revenue for them.
Both sides claim that they are encountering financial difficulties – not in terms of the casino operations, but in terms of the affiliate programs profitability. While I can accept this explanation, it does not in any way justify their actions.
Both sides have not agreed that they will commit to NOT breaking their contracts and agreements with us in the future – essentially denying their claims that they are in partnership with each affiliate. In other words, there is nothing that will stop them from making further changes to their programs which have the potential to negatively impact your income. Terms and conditions be damned – ultimately they are implying that they will do as they wish now and in the future.
This issue has also been raised with eCOGRA, who are sadly not able to mediate or take any action regarding this issue as their focus is on protecting the interests of the player and ensuring a fair and honest game from their members. However, they have duly taken note of this issue and will keep it in mind when dealing with these casino operations in the future.
Ultimately, this is not going to go away based on a single voice such as mine. While it is clear I have the best interests of both sides in mind and soul, and that these operators will and do listen to my opinions (for which I am always grateful), it is clear that I am not singularly able to influence their decisions, nor should I really expect this to be the case anyhow.
While I respect both programs and their managers, and am willing to stand up for the integrity of their parent casino operations and of the individuals themselves, I cannot in good conscience continue to support these programs because of their actions. Thus I will do only what I can possibly do – inform you of my discussions with them, and ultimately take the necessary actions to protect the business interests of myself and my partners by replacing these programs with other programs.
I am grateful to both programs for allowing me to express my opinions to them, and wish to thank them for their efforts in the past in working with me and in fact treating me very well in many ways both in person and through other means of communication. I wish them well in trying to work through this and future situations and ultimately to improving the quality of their programs. And I hope to see them as friends in the future, as they have been throughout my association with them.
Also, I am now removing myself from all affiliate issues as the focus of Got2Bet is now primarily on paid media, and I expect that we will continue to de-emphasize the affiliate model in our marketing.
I feel that the time has come for other affiliates to stand up for their rights and work individually and collectively to ensure future profitability for both themselves and the affiliate programs they partner with.
I will be glad to assist anyone at any time if they should require any help or advice, and I will continue to be active in the industry and look forward to meeting many of you through the coming years.
Hi Spear,
Thanks for sharing the info. It’s a shame they are not prepared to reconsider but not unexpected. I’m sure neither party made the decision lightly but to be honest, even if they had changed their minds it’s too late IMHO as it has shown that they feel existing agreements with affiliates can be manipulated as they see fit. As you say, that is not a “partnership” scenario.
I’m sure those (jammy sods) going to Miami will discuss this and hopefully come up with a very strong stance that others in the community feel they can align with. I hope it will be suitably indicative of how people really feel and not governed by money issues. A proper message and not a half-hearted rebuttal. I’m sure the Prof isn’t happy that supposed “allies” here can treat us all this way and I’m sure he’ll rally the troops between cocktails on the beach (I can hear the Miami battle-cry now: “We’ll fight them on the beaches…”)
Affiliate income reductions aside, affiliates that decide to accept this retroactive term change by continuing to promote these casinos, are also giving the message out to other affiliate programs that it’s quite acceptable, a consequence for which we’ll all suffer and, ultimately, some of us will be forced to move on to pastures new.
Oh i so love “soapbox” threads
Cheers
Simmo!
there will always be a few that will accept the new changes.
The part that annoys me most is look at what they have. A sales force working on a commision only basis, who end up working more hours than a typical job.
I like FA and have done well in the past with them, for me I have better things to do than wait and see what they decide (not just FA but all of them involved) , I dislike the attitude, I have dropped all programmes with new T&C’s . My actions wont dent there bank balance, but I cant see how anyone thinks its worth there while.
This is a principle issue for me, if you do a deal and the rules change along the way which you have no control over that is not a partnership you would accept in other aspects of your life so why let them
Power to the people on this one
on a lighter note my wife has just suggested that I organise a protest outside there offices
(honestly she is not suggesting I take her on holiday, she is just so supportive, but maybe I should be suspicous as I when I told her previously I enjoyed “craps” I am convinced she thought I meant my trips to the bathroom
):roflmao: :roflmao:
I know exactly where you are coming from. My wife is usually very supportive of everything I do, but doesn’t really know what I’m doing most of the time.
chockee wrote:I dislike the attitude, I have dropped all programmes with new T&C’s…This is a principle issue for me…
Good call Chockee.
A deal is a deal and why am I not surprised these firms don’t know that much?
And yes, Ecogra again are a waste of space ~ ie can happily deal with firms that retroactively change terms and conditions in their business dealings.
Why will I not be surprised when these firms change other terms and conditions related to player issues?
Why will I not be surprised the firms stay sealed with a kiss from a micro etc payed suit and boot operation after doing so?
Ridiculous.
Let’s not start the eCOGRA bashing here, Joeyl – it is not wanted and is not welcome. eCOGRA was not formed to represent or protect affiliates. They did what I asked them to do – keep it in mind, and no more should be expected from them.
You raised the “issue” with ecogra to ask them “to keep it in mind”..
To what end?
Based on its principles and the contribution of its stakeholders, eCOGRA is a powerful and fully resourced entity which ensures approved online casinos are properly and transparently monitored. eCOGRA’s Seal, displayed on the homepage of approved casinos, shows that the casino operator is committed to player protection, fair gaming and responsible conduct
Anyway, i tell you now Ted that “responsible conduct” does not constitute breaking deals with anyone. That includes you and Simmo and if you want to argue the toss with me about it, go ahead.
That would be welcome to speak about if that is ok by you ~ no? “responsible conduct”, because you have been doing so here rather vocally already.
If not, I am right and ecogra are sitting on their hands behind some half baked rule that suits the suits at the top, at the moment, at the expense of you and the other affs ~ who are players too by the way ~ are you not?.
joeyl –
Since eCOGRA is based in your general area, I would suggest you make an appointment to meet with them to learn more about the organization – I only see them 2-3x a year and it’s really silly that you could just get on the Tube and chat with them, while I have to fly overseas to do the same thing.
Responsible conduct is certainly something they must keep in mind. They will be given the details of the alleged transgression and then they must decide whether this falls under “responsible conduct” or not – again, they cannot watch over every single thing all of the time and must focus their efforts on their main objective, a fair deal for the player.
The fact that many affiliates are also players is irrelevant.
Yip, 20 minute walk ~ irrelevant in the cyber age.
They wrote the rules, not you nor I. If responsible conduct is pigeon holed to mean whatever suits, that is no good.
The firms broke a deal, plain and simple. That is not responsible conduct. To say anything else is laughable.
You were right to put it to ecogra. I am right to laugh at their nonsense answer. They are wrong to hide behind this “player stuff” only line.
If the casino behave like criminals that is not ok ~ what happened to the probity checks into every aspect of the casino operation to get sealed anyway? What a load of turd talk that is unless it means something tangible.
Have it right and stand firm and tell ecogra that is a cop out and you don’t support such closed minded, un-lateral thinking thinking. Tell them you actually agree with that idiot joeyl for once. Remove your support for them. Give it some welly.
WHY?
To break the written signed deal with affs should be illegal ~ not just “irresponsible conduct”. No one except Micro and/or ecogra can affect any sway over these firms whatsoever. You might though can sway ecogra or micro to act up for what is right and I am here to tell you now, I expect you to do just that with all of your influence ~ all of it..
The fact that I believe these actions to be illegal does not mean that eCOGRA should be the enforcement agency. Nor even Microgaming, though the point is taken and I will raise this issue with them as well.
My influence is that of one voice. This is to say, that I cannot be of any use whatsoever by myself, for I am not Samson. If others do not raise their voices as well, then this is tantamount to being accepting of the fact that they will allow themselves to be treated as whores.
Sorry. I’ve already done my best.
Meanwhile, 20 minutes away you can learn all about what eCOGRA does for the community – and yet you prefer to take potshots from a distance. Does this not say anything about your sincerity?
You question my sincerity regarding what exactly?
You think I think the action taken by these firms chopping the percentages retroactively is ok?
You think I should go shake Beveridges hand and drink tea? What for? I prefer nuetral thanks. The man does not “quote” have time to argue the toss over everything I percieve to be the wrong with ecogra” anyway.. I don’t want friends or acquaintences who will throw me to the lions tomorrow.
Forget me personally, just remember this is not the right thing to do by these aff firms. Forget me, just read the words again and you will see what I am talking about. If it takes to take a chunk out of ecogra to get the job done, then I say chomp. You owe them nothing. They just let you down imo along with some other friends who you’ve met, who I ain’t. Not me who turned you.
Anyway Ted, regardless, I know what I see and you are the victim too. So I don’t want to argue with you. Not this time.
Ecogra? No change there I am afraid.
Edited to add >> These firms should have said ~ hey, we are paying affs who agreed 20+ % for life errrm, 1%, take it or leave it. Seems to me they would have got away with it. No worries, they will get there soon .
