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joeyl wrote:You think I think the action taken by these firms chopping the percentages retroactively is ok?
Of course it’s not ok. That doesn’t mean that eCOGRA is responsible for addressing this issue,
Quote:You think I should go shake Beveridges hand and drink tea? What for? I prefer nuetral thanks. The man does not “quote” have time to argue the toss over everything I percieve to be the wrong with ecogra” anyway.. I don’t want friends or acquaintences who will throw me to the lions tomorrow.I think you should make a sincere effort to learn just what eCOGRA is all about, what role they play in the industry, and how they can be of service to players. Sniping from the sidelines does not do anyone justice – and as you know by now, the only way to be taken seriously is to be able to work and meet with friends or “enemies” and come to a better understanding of each other.
I am not a popular figure with everyone in the industry – many see me as a trouble maker – yet all of them are willing to sit down with me – and in fact sometimes initiate the meetings themselves – because ultimately we are both after the same thing – bettering the industry. Even constant foes know that I am approachable, and we will often go out and eat/drink together during conferences – but business is business.
I think that if you were to sit down to tea with Mr. Beveridge and Ms. Rees, you will find they are both knowledgeable and approachable and I am quite certain you will come away with a much better understanding.
Fair enough. If I could call the police I would, but I can’t because it is about online gambling in some far off land. I have’nt met anyone Ted, not even you.
I glean my info from the website and from press releases etc. I am sure they are nice people as personas when visitors are around. If they have something to say, they can put it out to public tender. And I pass the office three times a week, it is virtually up the road. So what though?.. My sincerity re “sniping” is not questionable. I mean what i say and say it, rightly or wrongly. Thats all. Big or little guy.
Ecogra have okayed the casinos lock stock and barrel, every aspect of the running of the casinos are looked into apparently before “sealed” status. So, they should deal with every aspect where the casino takes a liberty after being “sealed”.
You were right to put it to them. I am right to laugh and not be unsurprised by the cop out. They insult your intelligence in my humble opinion. I mean that with all sincerity and you don’t need to look me in the eye through a glass of juice and smile at me to know where I am coming from.
Sorry Ted, I see a spin machine when I see ecogra. I absolutely unequivocably think they should deal with this situation. No excuses mean anything to me except a cop out.
I hope you in the strongest terms remind anyone who has any pull or push over these firms that they have acted in what should be classed as an illegal manner. If you need my presence and I can be there, just ask and I will stroll in. I warn you though, I am not one for mixing in a kind happy clappy manner with people who insult my small amount of intelligence. You would probably be better off using your personable skills without my sniping from close quarters.
Cheers, peace, be well, I believe I have made myself clear.
If you think I’m the happy clappy type… LOL…
Anyhow, these meetings are to help reach objectives. As long as it’s done in a civil manner there is no reason why we can’t have disagreements. I still don’t agree with everything eCOGRA does and doesn’t do. I do, however, now understand and agree with the large majority of their objectives.
I do, however, now understand and agree with the large majority of their objectives.
from where I sit; it sounds like ecogra needs to make their position more clear; perfectly clear; so there is no need for anyone to interpret anything.
Its obvious to me that here are two parties; who neither fully understood ecogra’s position (until now), and considering the intelligence of their posts, and the fact I know at least one of them to have extensive knowledge in our niche, that ecogra needs to do a much better job declaring their positions on at least some aspects towards the casinos.
Now to move forward; establishing the fact that ecogra is not going to be much help in the matter, which in my opinion if they claim their seal of approval blankets all the casino’s responsibilties; greatly diminishes their credibility in my eyes, and apparently J’s as well – but that established: where do we go from here?
bb1webs wrote:… where do we go from here?Yup – lets get back On Topic
Actions. Hopefully the Miami Mob will have a few things to add….the Miami Mob
good one mate:On topic is someone who has some sway telling these firms they can’t break a deal and get away with it.
I do though, rightly or wrongly, have a problem with the maths. The math of all those who have had their % dropped will come to the sum total of adding together all of those who they were losing money from.
ie dropping your banners will make the firms more money.. I think?
Unless I have it all wrong, which has been known.
Joeyl has been very astute here on many counts.
I am still a supporter of eCOGRA – as an organization that is representing casinos that are not rogue towards players and as an organization that has the potential to improve player relations and take care of complaints by players against it’s members.
However, I now think that it’s usefulness is completely limited to the above, and it says nothing about the actual integrity of the casinos it represents in general. They can be rotten as can be – just not to players. I am very disappointed. I will continue to tell players that an eCOGRA approved casino is safer than some unknown entity, but I am not at all conceding anymore that having an eCOGRA seal says anything about integrity in general.
As in breach of contract – I have spoken to Fortune in Miami. I have to say I was very disappointed. Firstly, I was handed off to a third party who was nice and pleasant but really had nothing to say at all. I was slightly insulted by this, but did try to establish some sort of communication. The thing is, Fortune’s position is intransigent, their mind is made up, they counted on the reaction they got, and I don’t think they much care about losing affiliates. Maintaining affiliates costs money too, and I suppose there are many who are not worth their keep.
Fortune maintains they have to do this to fix cash flow problems, and there is no other way to do it.
At least Fortune made the effort to have someone available to speak with – I have not been able to contact Vegas Partners at all. There was a late night party they sponsored – too late for someone like me so I didn’t make it to that. Perhaps it might have been possible to have some meaningful conversation there.
These two programs seem to have their mind made up – it is and will be breach of contract.
Party Poker is not done fixing and explaining, and it doesn’t seem to be breach of contract there. We will have to wait and see a bit on that one before jumping to conclusions.
BUMP
Lest anyone forgets!
Not forgotten Simmo. Indeed it is rather worrying that other programs are slowly but surely making the same changes. I for one am broadening the range of programs I represent without effecting the all round quality of the sites I promote as a result.
Obviously the new programs I have signed up to have not implemented these unfair changes to T & C’s. The idea being of the groups that have made these retroactive changes that are currently being promoted by me will therefore get less and less coverage on my sites as a result in due course.
Another thing this has taught in the early stages of trying to run a successful casino portal(s) is to ensure I do not keep all eggs in one basket.
We are doing exactly what the programs are counting on – nothing.
As long as there is a handful of happy and prolific affiliates working for them, they don’t need the rest of us. We have already done the work – branding them by posting their banners all over the net.
While “bundling” forces us to spread out and make sure our eggs are not in one basket, the punishment for not sending new players is trying to force us to do the opposite.
If we protect ourselves against losses from one program, we will incur possible financial punishment from others as we may not send new players all the time to everyone we promote if we are widely spread out.
I still say that we need to diversify – there are still enough programs that treat us decently so we do not need to deal with those that do not.
Oh, and regarding an earlier post I made in this thread – I stand corrected. I met with Anrit in Miami – who is David’s boss. So I received very respectful treatment by Fortune, and I thank them for this. Unfortunately, one way or another, they are still in breach of contract. I truly wish it wasn’t so. Perhaps talks with the IGC will help find another way for Fortune and the other three programs now in breach.
We better not be doing “nothing”.
Is it any coincidence that VP and FL are both showing big fat ZEROES for me this month???
I can tell you for sure it is no coincidence that there are no banners for either operation on Got2Bet or Awesome Jackpots, nor will there ever be unless they buy media from the parent company, because as far as I am concerned this “partnership”, as they call it, is over. I don’t take kindly to being bent over without my permission and I can assure you that this will NOT be the last you hear of from me with regards to this particular issue.
Yep, I’ve gotten most their banners down for both places. Too bad, I actually had a decent month with FL though this last month (the one following), I went from having made a couple of Ks to less than $50.
Sigh. so I guess if they can’t manage to keep a big-timer around no longer than a month then they’ve done me a favor by forcing this issue.
… If I have to – I will cut back my programs to just one place that is keeping its original agreement with me.
There is just no way any half-decently run online casino using Microgaming software, should be facing money problems. Not when we more experienced affs know what these places are capable of making,
then compared to the costs of running a land-based casino which faces such operating costs as the huge payroll they have every week, monthly utilities, … why I bet just the cost alone for the cement used to build the parking lots for land based casinos would be enough to stagger most online casinos. And.. the land based casinos offer similar comps, incentives, etc, so its pretty hard to believe that the online casinos are hurting that much.
In any case, any program that changes the rules mid-stream on me, is either going to have to be doing very well for me; in which case I won’t be bitching since I won’t have a problem with sending more players,….
or else they are simply ensuring their program will be the first to be moved back or off when I compare stats at the end of the month and conclude that I can either keep program A, or program B, and you can be it will be the one NOT pulling this shit.
Spearmaster wrote:We better not be doing “nothing”.Is it any coincidence that VP and FL are both showing big fat ZEROES for me this month???
Yup snap – i have a couple of old players playing out some cents but my traffic is now being redirected to Vegas Affiliates and doing rather well I’m pleased to report :clapper:
Vegas Affiliates are a great program.
There is no lack of good Microgaming programs still.
