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What’s with the one casino per group idea, guys? They are screwing you on your PAST generosity, and you still want to give them space on your sites?
Pardon the language, it’s not directed at anyone personally, but for lack of a better way to describe the situation, it sounds like you’re saying “Go ahead, screw me, just let me choose which position”.
Correct Spearmaster. All fortune affiliate banners have now been removed from my sites after I have thought long and hard regarding their changes to the T & C’s.
I will not promote a casino group that changes their terms and conditions retroactively. Okay I might be small change to them, but it is their loss, one day my site could be very popular.
I’m just glad this has happened now and not six months down the line where my sites are more established and have put a further 6 months worth of players their way.
While I believe in the “To each his own” theory, I also believe in situations where everyone needs to speak up, such as this one.
Unfortunately, there are few of us willing to stand up to the programs, so they are turning a deaf ear.
I think it’s time we raise the volume a wee bit, don’t you?
Unfortunately, there are few of us willing to stand up to the programs, so they are turning a deaf ear.
Very true. If everyone who PMs me with their thoughts on this were to speak up, people would listen and we might be able to stem the tide.
But, alas, everyone is either too shy or maybe scared or???
Step by step we are being led like lambs to the slaughter.
I think it’s time we raise the volume a wee bit, don’t you?
Did you have something in mind? I may not have as much at stake as others, but I can be counted on in a crunch. :beatup:
Sue
Dominique wrote:Very true. If everyone who PMs me with their thoughts on this were to speak up, people would listen and we might be able to stem the tide.But, alas, everyone is either too shy or maybe scared or???
Step by step we are being led like lambs to the slaughter.After re-reading this entire thread, I went and removed all the Vegas Partner and Fortune Affiliate casinos from my Choice Gambling site. With a few clicks of the mouse, 9 FA casinos and 7 VP casinos bit the dust (well, I only deactivated the pages; didn’t actually delete anything. I’m not quite finished — I still need to clean up the poker pages on both of my sites).
As I was removing the pages, I began to wonder…. who else, besides myself, Simmo, Spearmaster, and Webzcas has actually removed the VP and FA properties from their sites?
Easy way to find out… I went to the CAP Members List and sorted the list by number of posts. Then I looked at the sites in the signature files.
Very interesting.
Turns out virtually nobody on the first page (except Spearmaster) has done a damn thing about this. Are you all okay with retroactive changes? If the answer is no, then why are you still sending traffic to the FA and VP properties? Aren’t there a hundred other Microgaming casinos out there for you to promote?
Instead of talking about this, why don’t we all actually do something?
Retroactive changes are NOT OKAY. EVER.
If a program retroactively changes the terms and conditions once, they’ll certainly do it again. And again. Perhaps next time they’ll cut your commissions down to 10%. Then after that, maybe they’ll knock it down to 5%. How would you like that?
If the other programs see this happening, maybe they’ll jump on the bandwagon and do the same thing!
We can’t let this happen. This is how many of you earn a living! If we don’t take action now, then the retroactive changes will continue. Just sit back and do nothing… you’ll see.
I think we all need to do whatever we can to let these programs know that it is completely unacceptable to make retroactive changes, ever. If this means putting FA and VP out of business, so be it. The industry doesn’t need dodgy programs like this anyway.
I strongly urge everyone who reads this to remove your FA and VP links. I especially urge the successful and senior members of CAP to do this… please guys, take some action. Please don’t send any more traffic to these properties. There are many other decent properties out there.
Protect your future.
Dave, your links to the VP and Forunte casinos and poker rooms are still active when I just visited your sites. (FYI if you forget to upload the changes.)
Dave I know you meant well with your post and are rightfully outraged by the decision by several casino groups to enact retroactive changes. I have no problem with you urging people to consider your position and to present it here at CAP. But you have to bear in mind individuals may have previous agreements or obligations which make removing a casino group immediately not possible. Please respect their rights to decide what to do with THEIR Businesses and portals.
Let’s keep this on the high road. Blast away at the programs that do make changes you find acceptable, by all means remove anyone you find objectionable from your sites, but please let your fellow affiliates have the right to make their decision without being publically called out for their choices.
On a side note I do plan on making changes in the partners I am currently promoting at MY player portals because I personally dont believe in retroactive changes either. In my case its makes good business sense to do so. That’s why I am doing it. I am sure everyone will do the same thing (do what’s best for their business).
Edited by Professor after dinner
Well, I agree with Dave. I am taking action.
My removal is gradual by necessity – but it is going on. I wish I had two pages to deactivate – as is, each page that gets updated loses these properties and will also lose Wagerjunction and Partner Logic. I guess Focal Click is coming back in to maintain Cryptologic Casinos, and there is no lack of good RTG or Microgaming to substitute. I will also lose Wagershare and Money Mechanics because of their T&Cs, even though there are no retroactive changes. I am going to watch T&Cs a lot harder and support only those programs that have decent conditions. I will benefit in the long run.
I am also going to redo my long neglected webmaster page which ranks well, but I am not going to remove these programs there. Rather, I will explain what I think of each program I list. That I have already started at least with what was there already.
Obviously no one is forced to do anything, but for the better of the community, and last not least for my own pocketbook, I will not support any programs that shortchange affiliates or that have betrayed our trust. The last thing I want to do is let any of the remaining programs think it is ok to do this. Breaching contract is NOT ok.
What others do is up to them.
Dave, your links to the VP and Fortune casinos and poker rooms are still active when I just visited your sites. (FYI if you forget to upload the changes.)
Yep, I’m still working on a few things… should be finished tonight or early tomorrow.
But you have to bear in mind individuals may have previous agreements or obligations which make removing a casino group immediately not possible. Please respect their rights to decide what to do with THEIR Businesses and portals. Please DO NOT publish lists of people you want to act one way or another.
Point taken. My apologies if I stepped over the line, Prof. No harm intended; I edited my original post and removed the names to be on the safe side. I honestly wasn’t trying to order anyone around; the last thing I want is to piss people off. I suppose if you’re locked into an agreement, there is little than can be done….
Dominique – sounds like a plan. :bigsmile:
Besides removing banners and links, does anyone have other ideas as to what we can do to fight retroactive changes in the future? Can we perhaps collectively hire a lawyer to go after these guys?
I have reported the programs in breach to the IGC. The responsible lawyer just returned to the office yesterday after prolongued absence.
He will look into the legality of things.
I just wish these programs wouldn’t force our hands to such drastic action – I wish there would be talks and negotiations and a possibility to find a way to avoid these retroactive changes.
We are supposed to be partners, not adversaries. I feel a lot of loyalty to some of these programs – it is just awful that they have chosen to break the contract we signed with them.
But instead of working with us to try to find a better way, they have chosen to ignore us completely.
Perhaps they will speak with the IGC….I am still hoping for resolution. I am likely a fool… :tongue:
Dominique wrote:I feel a lot of loyalty to some of these programs – it is just awful that they have chosen to break the contract we signed with them.
I feel the same way. Fortune Affiliates was one of the first programs I signed up with, and I thought very highly of them until they made the announcement about the retroactive changes. I was hoping they would rescind the retroactive part after some of you talked with them in Miami… but apparently the new terms aren’t negotiable.No harm at all Dave. I know we ALL were very saddened by this course change by a couple of respected partners and old friends. 🙁
This is a whole lot of casinos to remove.
Vegas Partner has 8 properties, Wager Share has 3, Partnerlogic has 4 if you don’t count international editions, Wager Junction has 3, Money Mechanic 4 and Fortune 14 plus 3 international editions.
It will take me some time to move all of them.
Additionally I will gradually look over all the T&Cs of programs I promote and I am going to do a major weeding out. I will definitely scrap all programs with a 3 month rule, and I will also remove those who bundle. I think that will affect Playtech a lot…..
And still, there are so many good programs left out there. It’s time to reward the good ones.
Hey Everyone,
For the record I am not happy about the retroactive changes as well. Currently I am still on summer vacation and will not be back working full time till fall. This will give me time to see how the changes affect my bottom line. In the fall I will look at making changes based on actions or changes that our not resonable or fair. I understand everyone being upset as I am about these changes. As the Professor stated some webmasters have commitments that must be fullfilled.There are not many places these days for online casinos or gambling portal webmasters to advertise. Traffic is extremely valueble to all in this business.
The bottom line is what I am thinking about too, in addition to the fact that I just cannot trust anyone who breaches contract, which is criminal.
These changes are designed to look like they do NOT affect your bottom line. After all, you do not have major winners every month, and the amounts nibbled away by bundling will be minimal to none many months. You can think bundling isn’t hurting you for a year or more, and then someone gets lucky and you get unlucky and you may lose your entire income for one or more months. Advertising places who bundle is gambling with your income. maybe you’ll have it and maybe you won’t.
Same with the 3 month rule. Perhaps it’s no big deal to send one player a month as long as you give the property exposure and your traffic source is well and alive, and you are well. But now they have you by the balls – if you enter a more profitable arrangement with someone else and need the real estate occupied by the 3 month rule people, you lose all your income with the 3 month rule places. And what if one of the awful Black Hat techniques these days gets you banned on the main engines? What if the adbuys you make now run dry? You lose all your income from the players your hard work referred to thes places. They get to keep all the players and all the money. You have worked for free.
These two business models are designed to let you feel fine for extended periods of time, in one case it’s just that you are gambling on your income, in the other you are being held tightly by the balls so you can’t stray to greener pastures, and in case of bad luck, well that’s just too bad.
Nothing is safe and secure in this business, but I am not going to expose myself to any more chances than I need to. It’s insecure enough without promoting programs whose word you cannot trust and whose conditions make you gamble your livelihood.
