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Very nice post, Dave. And since you didn’t call anyone out, I think your post is just fine – but I do appreciate you urging people to take action
No action now means you WILL be raped by EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM before the year is out, take my word for it. Won’t bother me as I will no longer have an aff income after Sept. 1st. I could just stay quiet and let them have their way – but I do not like being raped, and I don’t think any of you deserve this for the efforts you have put in over the years.
Anyone who is thinking of delaying action, I urge you to reconsider. Once the juggernaut starts moving, there will be no turning back – you MUST let your opinion be heard now if you are in disagreement with these actions – the wait and see will be the lethal blow which suddenly changes your life from the one you have grown accustomed to. Please do NOT wait.
Like Lou said, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I realize that some of you have “commitments” of one sort or another – but keep in mind that they just broke their commitment to you and everyone else will likely follow. I’m sure if you are creative enough you will find a way to voice your opinions, even if it does not mean you are removing them from the site immediately.
But do it now. I am the world’s biggest procrastinator, and in this case I can certainly afford to let things be the way they are – but I have chosen not to stay silent and I hope that the rest of you will stand up for your own rights.
Its going to be an interesting one this, as they appear to be “not interested” in coming to a suitable and agreeable arrangement.
One idea for them would be for FA to “buy out” affiliate accounts, working out a projected value of an affiliates account agreeing a settlement figure paying said affiliate and then all future income either high low or whatever from that account belongs to FA.
Just an idea but certainly worth looking into for both parties a sort off “golden goodbye”
Im sure many would be interested in 3, 6, 12 (whatever) months projected income as a lump sum settlement figure, that way FA have acted responsible and its gives everyone involved a potential “way out”
Spearmaster wrote:No action now means you WILL be raped by EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM before the year is out, take my word for it.Anyone who is thinking of delaying action, I urge you to reconsider. Once the juggernaut starts moving, there will be no turning back – you MUST let your opinion be heard now if you are in disagreement with these actions – the wait and see will be the lethal blow which suddenly changes your life from the one you have grown accustomed to. Please do NOT wait.
Like Lou said, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I realize that some of you have “commitments” of one sort or another – but keep in mind that they just broke their commitment to you and everyone else will likely follow. .
This is the single most significant thing that has ever happened in this industry – and I have to agree with Spear! If we do not show solidarity now we will see ALL the programs follow suit – we will be fu(^ed !
We will not be able to stem the tide. We need everyone to stand up and let it be known that we will not sit still for abuse!
We need to unite with all the other affiliates NOW! Those of you who are able to – please try to help make this a unified effort!
Well said Dave, Spear and Dom.
And don’t let the money argument sway you either. Just because one of the casinos does well, doesn’t mean you can’t switch your traffic to casinos at another group and do equally as well.
Also remember this: you may find FA, VPL etc work for you and make lots of money. But what good is that if they turn round in 6 months time and tell you that the agreement you signed is being torn up once again?
They’ve done it once, you continued to promote them, you only have yourselves to blame when all your players are worthless.
Some very good posts in this thread, in particular from Dave, Dom and Spear. It is heartening to know that some of the more established affiliates are recognising the potential damage to our industry caused by these retroactive changes to terms and conditions. More though do need to speak up, if we are to make any of these programs to rethink their strategy.
I have voiced this to Jeremy the Fortune Lounge Rep on Casinomeister and will also voice this here on Cap to all affiliate programs that have decided to introduce these changes retroactively to their terms and conditions.
Only time will tell whether these changes you have implemented without consultation with your partners ( us affiliates ) will be the equivalent of hoisting yourself onto your own petard.
I have also like Dom updated my Casino Webmasters page. Not only does it rank well in google #14 – it ranks #1 in msn.co.uk, and #5 in yahoo.co.uk for the term casino webmasters. This page will be continually updated to include any other programs that breach their terms and conditions.
At least this way I am doing my bit for our industry by informing any would be affiliate of programs that do not value affiliates as partners and fail to consult with them, before making punitive, possible illegal changes to their terms and conditions.
Simmo! wrote:Well said Dave, Spear and Dom.And don’t let the money argument sway you either. Just because one of the casinos does well, doesn’t mean you can’t switch your traffic to casinos at another group and do equally as well.
Also remember this: you may find FA, VPL etc work for you and make lots of money. But what good is that if they turn round in 6 months time and tell you that the agreement you signed is being torn up once again?
They’ve done it once, you continued to promote them, you only have yourselves to blame when all your players are worthless.
Exactly.
I made it very clear to Fortune Affiliates and Vegas Partner Lounge in Montreal at GIGSE that the very least that would be required is a formal notice that they are requiring the changes to be made and that they are aware that this is in breach of their own terms. I also asked them to give a formal undertaking that this would never happen again.
Neither has happened – and that’s why we’ve reached the now or never stage.
I have a question. I have been struggling with this whole issue of whether or not to completely remove both FA and VP from my sites. I totally agree with most everyone’s opinions about our future as affiliates. BUT the question is how effective is my decision (and your) to remove these properties if there are literally thousands of other sites that will still carry them? If this was a 9-5 job and people decided to go on strike and only half of them were outside picketing and the other half still loyally working, those people on strike would only be replaced by others who happily accept those working conditions. I am in no way FOR VP and FA’s obvious breach, but am wondering just WHAT if anything will be accomplished by following what seems to be a small bite at the big casino companies who are already very established making millions without the real need of a single new player to stay in business?
wufu110 wrote:I have a question. I have been struggling with this whole issue of whether or not to completely remove both FA and VP from my sites. I totally agree with most everyone’s opinions about our future as affiliates. BUT the question is how effective is my decision (and your) to remove these properties if there are literally thousands of other sites that will still carry them? If this was a 9-5 job and people decided to go on strike and only half of them were outside picketing and the other half still loyally working, those people on strike would only be replaced by others who happily accept those working conditions. I am in no way FOR VP and FA’s obvious breach, but am wondering just WHAT if anything will be accomplished by following what seems to be a small bite at the big casino companies who are already very established making millions without the real need of a single new player to stay in business?Four points here. Obviously the more people who stand up to this and make some noise the better for all of us. Those who continue to support these casinos may find they lose some respect from their peers, if indeed they care, but more importantly should also remember that by promoting them, they are telling players that they can trust a company to honour an agreement where the affiliate has proof to the contrary. That surely is a moral issue.
Secondly, you won’t be losing out as you can promote other MG casinos who will probably convert just as well.
Besides which, by their own admission, some of these groups are financially unstable, hence the changes. So who’s to say they’ll still be here in 12 months time? Too much of a risk IMHO.
Finally, if one continues to support them, one is in no position to complain when they, or other groups, pull a similar stunt in the future.
Cheers,
Simmo!
There are also much more selfish reasons.
I am going to embark on this now and it will take me some time to sift through this.
We are all optimizing for the search engines. Then we go and send our players to places we picked haphazardly. It makes no sense. We lose money every day of the week to places that are not the best we can promote.
We need to optimize our income. That means promoting the programs that have the best T&Cs and a reputation for fulfilling their promises.
That means not promoting places that can’t be trusted because they are in breach of contract.
It means promoting places that do not bundle.
It means promoting places that do not have 3 month clauses.
It means promoting pokers that have taken action to prevent the spamming of rooms and who proactively, no reactively, weed out duplicate accounts.
It means looking at T&Cs and picking the most profitable and reliable programs we can send our players too.
It’s time for a belated spring cleaning.
Yep. Anybody ever heard the expression “cut your losses”?
or for some of you older folks from the states, perhaps the old FRAM oil filter comercial is best fitting, “you can pay now,…. or you can pay later ….”.
cut your losses. Its a big web. I imagine there will be room for both types of aff programs to exist, the question however remains: to which one will you be better off having chosen when you look back on things a year from now?
Very good points all around.
Simmo! wrote:Besides which, by their own admission, some of these groups are financially unstable, hence the changes. So who’s to say they’ll still be here in 12 months time? Too much of a risk IMHO.Exactly.Imagine these two scenarios:
Scenario 1: Over the course of 1 year, you send most of your traffic to various Fortune Lounge casinos. Assume that, on average, you make $5,000 per month by doing this.
Scenario 2: Over the course of 1 year, you send most of your traffic to — oh I don’t know — Vegas Affiliates properties, for the sake of discussion. Here again, you make $5,000 per month.
Now also assume that your players are somewhat loyal to the casinos you send them to. Since you have a lifetime partnership with the affiliate program, you enjoy a nice residual income for many years to come. The casino keeps the bulk of the profits, of course, but you still enjoy the 25% or 35% that you are rightly entitled to based on the agreed-upon terms and conditions.
Now imagine this. Fortune Affiliates goes belly up and shuts everything down. Then what? What has just happened to your income stream? Or let’s say that they don’t exactly go out of business — let’s say that they once again retroactively change the terms and conditions… what if all of a sudden they inform you that you’re only going to get to 10% of the profits from all of the previous players you ever referred to them?
Meanwhile, Vegas Affiliates (from Scenario 2) is still doing well, still honoring their terms and conditions, still running a decent operation and paying out 30% (or whatever it is).
Wouldn’t it have made more sense to promote Vegas Affiliates (or any other halfway decent program, for that matter) instead of Fortune Lounge?
Of course, nobody can see into the future — we can only make educated guesses about what might happen. It’s entirely possible that VA or any other program could pull a fast one, like FL and VP have. However, since we already know that FL and VP are dishonest, untrustworthy programs, why not cut your losses (as bb1 suggested) and promote some other program?
Personally, I would rather take a chance with the programs that haven’t pulled any stunts, or that aren’t in financial trouble. By continuing to promote questionable programs, I would be putting my future income at risk — and I’m simply not willing to take risks like that. Knowing what I know now, it would be downright reckless of me to continue promoting the FL and VP properties.
Thanks guys, all very good points. After sleeping on it, there really is no other option (IMHO.) I appreciate the constructive and receptive responses. Looks like I have lots of updating to do…… :huh2:
Here’s a response from Fortune:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showpost.php?p=68599&postcount=65
Anyone who is actually concerned about these changes needs to have a look and if possible throw in their 5 cents on this thread on Meister.
Webzcas wrote:Anyone who is actually concerned about these changes needs to have a look and if possible throw in their 5 cents on this thread on Meister.Agreed. It’s very important that we speak up before it’s too late. The outcome of the discussion at Casinomeister will affect the future of the industry. If you oppose retroactive changes, this should definitely be of concern to you.Please don’t wait quietly and *hope* that the “rest of us” will succeed in getting the retroactive terms turned around — we need more voices over there; we need more support from everyone. Speak now, or forever hold your peace. 😎
