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Hi all,
RA is upstanding in may respects. While I have experienced a fall off with them … I don’t condemn them.
I damn sure know they don’t close accounts for any reason less than reasonable.
No dis-respect intended to original poster …… but i do point out what Ant said ….. 8 posts …. and already bashing a reputable program.
I suggest to everyone that when experiencing such an instance …. with a program …. that …… had you done a search and homework … seen the program in question has a very good reputation ….. deserves a second ….even third chance at handling your situation because trust me …. 7 yrs in this niche. ……. its damn hard to find a reputable program ….. and when you do …. you better give them every chance to work things out.
yes I’m biased. I admit that. but experience gives me the reason and logic for being so.
I think that original poster has greatly hurt themselves not contacing Renee on a personal basis and saying ….. “hey…. I’ve got this situation…. I need your help in figuring out the matter because I want to work with you”.
I know from my own experience with Brent ….. (back then he was aff manager) …. that my taking those steps made things work.
do your homework. Search here at CAP. …. furthermore ……many forums are biased …. some may be run by unscrupulous programs for instance….. trust your proven and older aff people. We DO NOT make claims unfounded….. we DO NOT defend programs that don’t deserve it!!!
thanks for considering what i have said.
antoine;146974 wrote:Hmmmm, every couple of months the same thing happens. A new affiliate comes on this message board bashing established programs that have great reputations amongst both players and webmasters.A couple of questions:
1. Did you choose reward affiliates because they pay the wager share model versus the player loss model?
2. Are you getting players to visit the casino, to make the minimum deposit, play the minimum required under the terms and conditions, and then explaining to those players when they should cash out?
3. Are you assuming that even if the player cashes out the exact same amount they deposited that you will be earning money from the wager model?
4. Are your players playing at the casino because they are gamblers or are they trying to defraud the casino?
I think I all ready know the answers.
1. No – I have chosen to promote every kind of casinos (the well known reputable ones). All I do is I make my homework at casinomeister atleast so I won´t promote casinos that are known for problems so plain rogue ones or even the ones with some known problems won´t make my site (and I also try to play in the casino first myself). I did not even know which model Reward Affiliates used before the first time I logged in to my account there actually. Over 90% of the casinos I promote at the moment use revenue share only. I pick casinos to promote from the players perspective, not from affiliates perspective -> see the reason for this in the point three.
2. I don´t and can´t even control how my players play. I just honestly tell the facts to them about every casino and what kind of promotions they run at the moment. One of the reasons I chose Yukon at the beginning was that I know that most of my players are complete newbies at online casinos and they (Yukon Gold) have decided to run a promotion targeted to newbie gamblers where you can try online casino gambling safely with cashback promotion and small deposits. My principal is not to lie to my players trying to lure them into big deposits when they are new to gaming so that my possible comission would be the biggest possible (I see this kind of affiliate websites about casinos more than often).
3. Of course I don´t. I am not stupid so that I won´t understand how different comission models work. I am not trying to make money actually – I know that when content is lucrative enough in general -> one will get more visitors -> more comission after long enough period of time.
4. See number two.
My point with this thread was to ask about general practices used at this industry, because I felt pretty not well handled by a group accredited here when they did not inform me about radical change with my affiliate account at the first place, but I had to contact them myself to get an answer after a few days then. This is a practice that I am not used to when working in any kind of a business – I have some experince in importing business and in sub-affiliating business before this hobby of online gambling affiliating (I am a professional poker player myself at the moment). And I think I got my answers here, thanks to posters.
Cheers!
Air……
My principal is not to lie to my players trying to lure them into big deposits when they are new to gaming so that my possible comission would be the biggest possible (I see this kind of affiliate websites about casinos more than often).
I take that offensively… I think not one person here is trying to “lure” their readers into anything. In fact ….. most try to educate their readers into understanding that gambling is “entertainment” ….. and that they WILL LOSE!
that said….. sir/lady….. this is a business! From ALL sides. you target people …… send people ….. whom are about bonus abuse ….. about not intending spending money…… well what do you expect?
YOU get fraud. You get players that are unwanted! It seems to me that you are without doubt targeting such players …. (your numbers speak volumes on that if they are true) ….
RA is a program that …… if nothing else ….. is smart enough to not close an account that is producing quality players. I cannot imagine them shutting down an account that might have been 90% bonus abusers etc …. if it even produced one quality player.
As I said before …. do your homework! do a search here at CAP! you’ll see a very, very large number of proven affs are happy with RA under either their wager or rev share models.
which then begs to consider. ….. where is your traffic from … and what is it about?
read …… read some more …… you will see where most proven affs are saying that you will get what you target! You want fraud……. you want bonus chasers? target the words “free” or etc ….. don’t expect quality players.
don’t go blaming a proven reputable program for shutting down an account when
1. you didn’t contact the aff manager and allow time to respond
2. you fully admit these are newbies to OG. or are they? did it ever cross your mind they are bonus chasers …… frauds…… who are taking advantage of the fact of your approach to your targeting?I say this to make you aware. Not to sound accusing though I admit it may come out sounding that way because of the program you chose to bash.
proven affs know that RA has a sound rep. But stepping past that is the fact that you didn’t even say …. “I’m not making money with them” ….. rather …. you immediately bashed them …. Renee….. who let me enlighten you ….. is a favorite here…… at least amongst many of us ….
and you readily admitted you didn’t take the effort to try and work this out with them before coming here with your whopping 8 posts ….. and choose to bash them.
what are we to think? to trust the person who has made a whopping 8 posts? or the aff manager whom I think majority would agree…. goes out of her way to address issues ….. and work with us?
*I apolgize to any i may have offended …. but as some of the proven …. over many years … affs have already spoken ….. this seems a bashing … rather than an honest approach to finding a solution.
Air …….. I too was once a newbie… I know you claim not.. but here…. you’re seemingly so. I strongly suggest you contact Renee…… try to work this out in a civil and logical manner ….. before you bash a program and aff manager who has earned respect thru many posts.
I respect that you may have many posts elsewhere .. but this is CAP! and trust me ….. it has earned a certain respect amongst some of us that is not easily matched.
bb1webs;146994 wrote:I take that offensively… I think not one person here is trying to “lure” their readers into anything.I did not mean CAP members´ websites with my statement about luring players into big deposits for an affiliate to maximize he´s/her´s profit. I talked about affiliate sites in general in the web if we go through every site with affiliate links. So I hope you won´t be offended. You all know yourself if your site´s content is good (not promoting rogue casinos) or not.
I don´t personally see a player fraud if some casino has decided to run a promotion themself to especially target newbie players with it and then newbie player decides to use that promotion to test online casino gambling feeling safe. I am not a promotional manager in any casino to make these decision. Fraud in my (and in casinomeisters) standards are CC chargebacks, duplicate accounts, playing against T&C – like excluded games etc. Not taking a part to a promotion that casino has decided to run targeting new players themself. Sorry btw if I refer too much to casinomeister but that is the place where I have learned most from this industry in the first place.
Hi again all,
re-reading much of this thread.
I’d like to give it up to Air…. this person has been as professional as can be expected …. considering the circumstances… whether right or wrong.
And while i took much as bashing…. I re-read and realized ….. that’d I’d too ….. have issues ….. and that at least there was an ….. shall I said “Air” of professionalism of approach?
I’m still about RA.. Just wanted to say that re-reading … I may have jumped the gun to sound like that Air was approaching this in an unfitting manner …. if I sounded as such.
So ….. Air ….. I hope you appreciate that I’m not one-sided. Its just your coming in here with such few posts …. and saying such about a program that really and truly has been a leader in discouraging spam…. content theft ect…
I hope you understand and know I am willing to hear you out …… but I think you need to contact Renee and give her the chance to work with you.
Perhaps the day will come …. when you are saying ….. “Steve was right …. RA is a sound program” …..
and if not … well …. don’t say i didn’t try to be fair about all involved. ?
I guess we made posts same time Air…… hang in there….. give Renee a chance …. fair enough?
No offend taken webs – I am on a good mood today after a good amount of sleep with my GF
I still want to underline that my point here is not to bash anyone – I understand that any program reserves a right to cut any affiliate off whenever they want if they decide to – and they don´t have to even give any reason for that if they don´t wish to. I am not too unhappy with this, because there are several other programs to promote. I am just little confused how they make decisions like this so fast (first 20 player who happen to use link). What was (and is) my real point posting this, is that I was not informed in the first place about this kind of a radical change with the state of my account, so I had to be a little stressed about it a few days – I did not know if the password was hacked or what had happened when I was suddenly not able to login anymore and I had not been contacted by particular program.
I take hacking and password protection and that kind of a security issues very seriously, because as a professional poker player myself I have to keep several tens of thousands of dollars of my own money in my playing accounts and web wallets all over the web.
Now I hope my point with this thread is understood (my mother language is not english so sorry for any possible misunderstandings) and I don´t personally have anything to add here. I have to leave my computer now for a while.
Good day for everyone!
Air,
I think you have a very good understanding of the English lang….. prob better than myself and I only speak that lang lol.
You’re doing well. And i appreciate your point. But contact Renee…. give her a chance.
you make a point for me …. and I suspect for them
first 20 player who happen to use link
imagine ……. the first 20 people you encounter … and all are fraud?
pretty good reason to wonder eh?
think about what i have said….. contact Renee…. try to work things out. I cannot say how this will all end….. but I think I make valid points.
good luck.
S.
I am on a good mood today after a good amount of sleep with my GF
ps.
….lucky dog
ps, ps.
I also understand you’re concerns about hacking etc.
contact Renee about all your issues ….. she WILL help…. given the time and chance …. or if nothing else …. you’ll have saved a great deal of time, effort .. and most importantly … players sent …..
if things don’t work out.
I hope I have been of help to both sides. I DO know you WILL get response from Renee ….. given time.
hope it works out for both.
I know that 20 players in .. uhhh a few months for me, at a brand new site would be.. well somewhere near a volcano eruption. I can be a little layzee
though when it comes to promoting brand new sites, it’s the search engine results that motivate me .I’m pretty sure that all the big big affiliates were even surprised by that number though, that right there makes the whole the thread look fishy.
Then later on… reading.. idk, it looks just a little less fishy. So I have a question.. Does the fact that the website is not in English have major bearing on possible numbers there?
Is it actually possible that a brand new site, in another language (which language is it?) can see 20 depositing players so fast? OR even more than an English based site..
I’m not rationalizing here.. and I don’t believe you get that kind of traffic from siggy clicks either.. But perhaps a post or two.. here n there.. So I’m just curious if it’s actually plausible in the least.
It took me one year and a lot of work to get decent traffic (over a 100 visitors per day).
Visitors from forums is good but from which kind of gambling related forums?
RA/CR is a very good program and Renee is a very good affiliate manager.
So I think your traffic is somewhat fishy which resulted in closing your account.If you would post your website address maybe things become much clearer.
If not we are talking no(n)sense, I guess.
Success.
Rick
I like this thread. It raises a few interesting points, not so much about the fraud players, who if we assume came from Eastern Europe could easily be fraudulent. And kudos to AiruaL for keeping the thread professional and on topic. But I must point out two things:
No, there was nothing confidential about my email, however the clause is still there and you disregarded it…
Sorry, but that’s not how it works. Just because you put a “clause” at the end of your email it doesn’t mean it’s a binding contract. I can put at the bottom of all my emails the clause “by reading this email you agree to send me $10” and I doubt someone would. If you want to keep your emails confidential – it should state so in the T&C when the affiliate signs up. I don’t know if CR does that, but if you base it solely on the email clause, again, it means nothing.
No offence intended mate, but I was away on personal leave. I think that’s good enough reason. Perhaps you should consider what personal leave means and that saying ‘it’s not good enough’ may be insensitive. I am human afterall.
Personal leave is fine and being human is great. But in a business environment, if you take a leave you should assign someone to cover for you. It doesn’t matter what kind of business – people always have back-up in situations like that, even if it’s one-man-company. I cannot imagine that CR with so many casinos rely on only one aff manager and if he/she gets sick or whatever – that business comes to a halt. Also, every aff manager I have ever met carries a company-owned laptop around, so I don’t know what that Blackberry thing was all about.
Nothing personal – I have never worked with CR, but I do hope that this will leave some aff managers a little offended. It’s always the right time to start treating a business as such. I used to work in a car dealership back in the past (and you know how those folks are regarded) and I could spot a buyer from the sunday-testdriver from a mile, but I never treated anyone differently. It would be nice if all aff progrmas worked like a good business, not like a mom-and-pop shop.
Personally, I am strictly against publishing emails that state they are confidential.
It means that people will not be free to write what they think but are walking on eggshells trying to figure out if anything they say could be misinterpreted. This seriously impedes proper communication between us and the programs.
If I ever see one of my personal mails published I will be pissed to hell.
Aff managers don’t make the kind of salaries that warrant staying online and connected 24/7. If people are sick or otherwise indisposed, so be it. I expect to be dealing with a human being and not a machine, and appreciate human behavior.
CR is an outstanding program, in all ways including aff support, especially aff support.
If Airual sent 20 fraudulent players off the bat, he needs to seriously reconsider the source. It is highly abnormal and warrants caution on the side of the casino. Certainly they don’t want any more of them. Nor do we. Fraudulant players are a plague on us and on other players, causing WR to tighten and messing up the entire online playing industry.
Airual does not in the least bit sound like a novice. He seems very well versed in all things affiliate.
The fact that he won’t divulge his site is making his post rather useless and a guessing game. If he wanted us to actually help get to the bottom of this and help solve the problem, he would need to be totally forthcoming.
Because of all the above, I tend to discount the complaint.
That said, it would be a good thing for an auto mail to be sent when a program closes someone’s account. being unable to login is most unsettling when one has no idea one was locked out.
Dominique;147027 wrote:That said, it would be a good thing for an auto mail to be sent when a program closes someone’s account. being unable to login is most unsettling when one has no idea one was locked out.Agreed. This is the key point I wanted to bring in light with this thread.
I am fairly sure I would have not gotten any notification ever about account closure if I didn´t email them myself to ask about it. After that it took 2 days to get that email answered.
I might be able to PM a moderator here about the current site address, but I won´t publish it publicly here, before it is 1) Completely ready 2) Moved to a domain I own for stated reasons above. I am pretty scared about content theft too and before I own the domain myself, copyright things get much more complicated in the occurance of a content theft, I believe (this is area I am not good in).
I am sure CAP members are not stealing content, but these forums are open to quests too, and I am pretty sure that here are tons of lurkers with not so honest intentions looking for good content to add/copy to their sites than are in my regular users who happen to surf to my national site at the moment. I have some valuable content that I want to protect – for example sports betting guide made by a professional sports bettor (I have paid for this and don´t want others to copy it for free), free training videos in poker (usually these are not free in other sites), which are currently in downloadable version and are easy to copy to other places (because I don´t yet have a web platform where to show them so that those wouldn´t be downloadable) etc. So I hope my concerns are understood with this.
But I am already happy with the outcome with this, because veteran users have agreed with my key point here about informing affiliate immediately at least with some automated message when huge change like this occurs in the state of an affiliate account.
In my opinion everything that is relevant is discussed through about this now in this thread. Happy X-Mas everyone (this means you Renee also of course)! :santa2:
And GL!
Well, I would always look from the affiliate side of things first, since the affiliates are “my people”
I would like to note that AiruaL said he/she was inexperienced in online casino affiliation, but stated that he knows a thing or two about online gambling and affiliation – maybe he was a poker affiliate or rakeback guy or something. How experienced you are is not the point at all. The point of his post was that he had to wait 8 days to learn his account was closed (for whatever reason) and only after he/she contacted them.
The point of my post was that it was a lame excuse, when you could simply say: “We do not allow hits from spamming or listing on newsgroups, or any other fraudulent method. In the event any of the above conditions exist, we will invalidate all current traffic and terminate your account without notice.” as per our T&C. When you sign under this kind of T&C – you cannot blame anyone for getting zapped. Here is another zinger from RW: “We may terminate any account for any reason with full payment.”
I am going on 8 years actively in this business and I doubt that any of you have ever seen me. It’s because it’s a business for me and I expect a business relation – not looking for friends. A good affiliate program manager sends an email before going on leave with details on when they’ll be back and an email of another affiliate manager if you need to contact them meanwhile. A good affiliate program responds to an email within 24 hours. Any other behavior is below standard.
P.S.
Aff managers don’t make the kind of salaries that warrant staying online and connected 24/7. If people are sick or otherwise indisposed, so be it.
If you are not happy with your current job – change it. A domain name goes for about $5 and 1 year hosting for about $30 – so with minimum investments and aff manager could try and see “how easy the affiliates have it.”
