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eCOGRA is the independent standards authority of the online gaming industry, specifically overseeing fair gaming, player protection and responsible operator conduct Mr Engineer.
Do you have conclusive proof that Ecogra have failed in any of these regards? If so, prove it, show it to me, give us all a good laugh. With all due respect you need to do your homework a bit better before you start shooting from the lip and questioning things about something you know little of.
I have tired of defending Ecogra in the face of ill-informed mudslingers trying to bring down this highly professional, independant, fair minded, non profit-making and transparent player centric inititiative.
joeyl wrote:eCOGRA is the independent standards authority of the online gaming industry, specifically overseeing fair gaming, player protection and responsible operator conduct Mr Engineer.Do you have conclusive proof that Ecogra have failed in any of these regards? If so, prove it, show it to me, give us all a good laugh. With all due respect you need to do your homework a bit better before you start shooting from the lip and questioning things about something you know little of.
I have tired of defending Ecogra in the face of ill-informed mudslingers trying to bring down this highly professional, independant, fair minded, non profit-making and transparent player centric inititiative.
Hey mudflinger can you cough up proof they are contrary? greek39
joeyl wrote:Do you have conclusive proof that Ecogra have failed in any of these regards?Easy tiger, he didnt come in here slamming eCOGRA he came in with some simple questions yet you chose to go on the defensive full tilt, whats up with that?
He also brought up the fact that eCOGRA wishes to explain away the 888 ethics issues as an affiliate problem and not one thats related to players. That is a fact, and that undeniably involves the operator conduct which you have mentioned!
Operator conduct involves marketing which involves malware usage, spamming, splogging, and scraping. It should also involve paying third party sources who knowingly participate in those activities as doing so would be irresponsible.
888 has stated recently that they are going to change their ways, while I am prepared to give them that opportunity, I am very skeptical. eCOGRA on the other hand has continued to totally ignore the standards violations of its leading advocate, 888, passing the buck to affiliates.
I have never understood why people are so quick to defend something based only on it being the best available option. Shoot me, stab me, stone me, hang me, hell which is best, which do we defend? They are all horrible in my mind, I choose not to defend any.
joeyl wrote:eCOGRA is the independent standards authority of the online gaming industry, specifically overseeing fair gaming, player protection and responsible operator conduct Mr Engineer.Do you have conclusive proof that Ecogra have failed in any of these regards? If so, prove it, show it to me, give us all a good laugh. With all due respect you need to do your homework a bit better before you start shooting from the lip and questioning things about something you know little of.
I have tired of defending Ecogra in the face of ill-informed mudslingers trying to bring down this highly professional, independant, fair minded, non profit-making and transparent player centric inititiative.
Joeyl, is this an impersonation of Jetset?
eCogra is nothing more than an elaborate marketing exercise, in my opinion.
The current Facts:
Fact
ECogra start up costs were injected by John Anderson (CEO 888) and Roger Raatgever (CEO Microgaming™).Fact
Both John Anderson and Roger Raatgever are non-executive independent Directors.Fact
All non-executive independent Directors will always have control over board decisions.Fact
eCogra suspended All Slots Casino Play It Safe seal for unethical SE practice.Fact
888 holds an eCogra Play It Safe seal.Fact
eCogra have not suspended 888.com of it’s Play It Safe seal, even though 888.com have been in direct violation of the same eGAP guidelines to which All Slots Casino had their Play It Safe seal suspended.Fact
eCogra states on their home page:
http://www.ecogra.com“eCOGRA is the independent standards authority of the online gaming industry, specifically overseeing fair gaming, player protection and responsible operator conduct.
Prompt payments, safe storage of information, random games, honest advertising, and responsible behavior by the online casino and poker room operator are the primary concerns of every player, so that means they are also the primary concerns of eCOGRA, “eCommerce and Online Gaming Regulation and Assurance”.
Our goal is to deliver all of these player imperatives at quality sites carrying the eCOGRA “Play It Safe” Seal. Be sure to look for it, everytime you play. If it’s not there, your site may not be safe.”
Yet on the casino approved page they state this:
http://www.ecogra.com/approved.aspx?OP=P
“While eCOGRA does its utmost to ensure compliance with its principles, it cannot offer 100% assurance that the operation of any games at any given site is at all times in accordance with the eCOGRA requirements. Therefore eCOGRA cannot assume responsibility for the consequences resulting from the use of any Internet gaming site bearing the eCOGRA Play It Safe seal. eCOGRA is not liable to any person or group of persons, firm, company or entity for losses of any description that a user of an accredited site may suffer. Accredited sites are subject to regular monitoring of their operation.”That btw is called a retraction*.
These retractions are riff throughout the eCogra site. In essence eCogra does NOT stand by their Play It Safe seals.
As far as eCogra being Transparent, I’ve searched high and low and cant not find anywhere where it states that eCogra was funded by John Anderson (CEO 888) and Roger Raatgever (CEO Microgaming™). The same gentleman who hold non-executive independent Director positions at eCogra.
The same non-executive independent Directors who can over ride the eCogra Board decisions.
By not acting on suspending 888 of its Play It Safe seal speaks volumes and should point to where eCogra’s independence ultimately lays.
eCogra is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.
*
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retraction
Rectraction (re·trac·tion)
1/ The act of retracting or the state of being retracted.2
a. The act of recanting or disavowing a previously held statement or belief.
b. A formal statement of disavowal.
c. Something recanted or disavowed.
3/ The power of drawing back or of being drawn back.joeyl wrote:eCOGRA is the independent standards authority of the online gaming industry, specifically overseeing fair gaming, player protection and responsible operator conduct Mr Engineer.Do you have conclusive proof that Ecogra have failed in any of these regards? If so, prove it, show it to me, give us all a good laugh. With all due respect you need to do your homework a bit better before you start shooting from the lip and questioning things about something you know little of.
I have tired of defending Ecogra in the face of ill-informed mudslingers trying to bring down this highly professional, independant, fair minded, non profit-making and transparent player centric inititiative.
That maybe so, BUT, that’s not what this topic is about.
This topic is about eCogra and 888 & I’ll assume in regard to why eCogra is playing favouritism to 888.
Anything else you may like to inject (such as your quote above) is irrelevant.
I will post my thoughts and proof on this matter afterall. However, be warned some may not like what they here. It will be from a neophite perspective, and will follow a logical argument in a formatt all capsters can understand this will include newbies. Also it will include the letter sent by Nicholas.
I will not play stupid with this post. Give me the the time to formatt the information I already have. greek39
Oh boy Wager2Win, speaking your mind like that is sure to get the panties of those staunch supporters in a major wad!
Yes, IMO as well, its nothing but a marketing exercise plain and simple. eCOGRA has even started featuring “reputable portals” they are IMO using that practice as an SEO and self-promotion exercise. Quite funny on one hand they claim that affiliate business is not in their remit, yet they openly use affiliates to assist in the marketing of eCOGRA.
Either you are independant or you’re not, you cant have it both ways. Same goes with the enforcement of responsible operator behavior, if behavior B warrants action for one seal holder it damn well warrant action for all of the others as well.
Since that is clearly not the case, we would be acting irresponsibly if we did not contemplate for at least a moment the potential conflict of interest that has presented itself.
axl wrote:eCOGRA has even started featuring “reputable portals”Yes but in true eCogra style they state this at the top of the reputable portals page:
http://www.ecogra.com/reputable_portals.aspx?OP=P“In seeking as wide a protection for the player as possible, eCOGRA has identified a number of portals where we are confident that players can benefit from the integrity and quality of the content, and the commitment to fair play and customer service of the portalmaster.”
But make this retraction at the bottom of this page:
“eCOGRA has no control over, nor is it responsible for, the content of portals or of the sites represented on any portal. eCOGRA gives no assurance regarding sites represented on any portal, except for sites which have eCOGRA accreditation. Portals are not subject to eCOGRA accreditation nor are they within the scope of eGAP.
Accordingly, no representation or warranty can be given regarding portals or sites represented on any portal. eCOGRA expressly disclaims responsibility to any person, corporation or other legal entity for any consequences, including (but not limited to) losses of any description, resulting from the use of any portal or any gaming site accessed via, or listed on, a portal listed below.”
What a Joke!
What is even funnier, is that they state:
“eCOGRA gives no assurance regarding sites represented on any portal, except for sites which have eCOGRA accreditation.”
Bullsh#t
eCogra makes this retraction to that statement:
“While eCOGRA does its utmost to ensure compliance with its principles, it cannot offer 100% assurance that the operation of any games at any given site is at all times in accordance with the eCOGRA requirements. Therefore eCOGRA cannot assume responsibility for the consequences resulting from the use of any Internet gaming site bearing the eCOGRA Play It Safe seal. eCOGRA is not liable to any person or group of persons, firm, company or entity for losses of any description that a user of an accredited site may suffer. Accredited sites are subject to regular monitoring of their operation.”
Bottom line is eCogra doesn’t stand by its Play It Safe seal. That’s why this is just a BIG marketing campaign. Anyone who tries to tell you different is misguided or they hold a vested interest in eCogra.
Wager2winUK wrote:retractionhahaha yes, always one of those in place which in affect cancels everything that came first out.
Yes, sites like x8u8x.com are exactly what I think of when I consider integrity and quality content. LMAO! Maybe I missed it, but I seen no quality content at all, just a big banner/link farm.
The list of sites they have presented features “mostly” the usual suspects e.g. a line-up of the staunchest supporters in addition to a handful of sites which actually requested to be listed based most likely on a cry for fairness.
Yes I agree, those who defend so vigorously have an invested interest whether they wish to acknowledge that or not!
You can bet they will rally up a crew to come defend the BS, IMO they shouldnt bother, they cant convince me that that lemon is an apple!
Wager2winUK wrote:Yes but in true eCogra style they state this at the top of the reputable portals page:
http://www.ecogra.com/reputable_portals.aspx?OP=P“In seeking as wide a protection for the player as possible, eCOGRA has identified a number of portals where we are confident that players can benefit from the integrity and quality of the content, and the commitment to fair play and customer service of the portalmaster.”
But make this retraction at the bottom of this page:
“eCOGRA has no control over, nor is it responsible for, the content of portals or of the sites represented on any portal. eCOGRA gives no assurance regarding sites represented on any portal, except for sites which have eCOGRA accreditation. Portals are not subject to eCOGRA accreditation nor are they within the scope of eGAP.
Accordingly, no representation or warranty can be given regarding portals or sites represented on any portal. eCOGRA expressly disclaims responsibility to any person, corporation or other legal entity for any consequences, including (but not limited to) losses of any description, resulting from the use of any portal or any gaming site accessed via, or listed on, a portal listed below.”
What a Joke!
What is even funnier, is that they state:
“eCOGRA gives no assurance regarding sites represented on any portal, except for sites which have eCOGRA accreditation.”
Bullsh#t
eCogra makes this retraction to that statement:
“While eCOGRA does its utmost to ensure compliance with its principles, it cannot offer 100% assurance that the operation of any games at any given site is at all times in accordance with the eCOGRA requirements. Therefore eCOGRA cannot assume responsibility for the consequences resulting from the use of any Internet gaming site bearing the eCOGRA Play It Safe seal. eCOGRA is not liable to any person or group of persons, firm, company or entity for losses of any description that a user of an accredited site may suffer. Accredited sites are subject to regular monitoring of their operation.”
Bottom line is eCogra doesn’t stand by its Play It Safe seal. That’s why this is just a BIG marketing campaign. Anyone who tries to tell you different is misguided or they hold a vested interest in eCogra.
Good post I like it. I say its’ a valid anology, choatic as ecogra’s statements often are. I am not concerned with supporters of ecogra but rather the truth. They can blast their guns all they want. I am not connected to any private parties, I can speak freely, thank God for that!!
The results will be up either today or tomorrow. greek39
axl wrote:The list of sites they have presented features “mostly” the usual suspects e.g. a line-up of the staunchest supporters in addition to a handful of sites which actually requested to be listed based most likely on a cry for fairness.I missed being insulted by you. I see I didn’t have to wait for long.
Fact
All non-executive independent Directors will always have control over board decisions.Actually this is not fact and is untrue. Unless you have FACTUAL information which you are privy to, if so please share.
I doubt Hirst, Catania & Galston would be pleased at your comments. Why not check out their bios on the ecogra site.
Fact
ECogra start up costs were injected by John Anderson (CEO 888) and Roger Raatgever (CEO Microgaming™).Incorrect.
eCOGRA has even started featuring “reputable portals” they are IMO using that practice as an SEO and self-promotion exercise.
Incorrect. I am a webmaster that owns a site listed on this page, along with many other CAP members, such as Dominque, Simmo!, Peralis. Then not forgetting the likes of Spearmaster who ran Got2Bet and then there is CardsChat of which the webmaster is a member of CAP.
I am proud to have my site listed there. However, this does not mean I do special favours for ecogra. I have after all got 888 rogued on my site. In addition I also don’t perform any seo for ecogra. But I do have a good relationship with Andrew Beveridge. I believe to succeed in this industry you need to have good communication channels.
So I suggest before spouting off in future, you actually get your facts in order.
You can spin it anyway you like, eCOGRAs listing of reputable portals is IMO, yes its an opinion, is promotionally motivated.
Hell, ecogra even host promotional content for its listed portals !!!
http://www.ecogra.com/promo/oggs/webzcas, whether or not you are proud to be listed there does not change their primary goal (IMO) of having you list them.
Axl the good thing about VBulletin is the Ignore Feature :colgate: Which I am now going to employ on your goodself, until the time you cease speaking out of your backside.
When that happens, can someone let me know, but I figure I am going to have a long wait.
