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kwblue wrote:Any idea what type of arrests? Affiliates or just affiliate programs? I’m not keen on being arrested myself.
Well considering its a fishing expedition, arrest them first ask questions later; you can expect to see both being rounded up.
Hey its Vegas, gamble a little.
Might even see a good old 424. (vegas LEO talk for “riot”)Well, this was going to be my first event, but it sounds like if I go – I should stay well away from the event itself.
A program has also paid for my stay, so I wonder if that should worry me?
This just all sucks bags.
its sucks BIG TIME, its definitely not worth going to be arrested in the name of thatever was going to happen at the Convention…
any other news on this particular topic? i think im seriously starting to re-considering my stay there…
It sets a new bench mark for Suckiness… I would put this one right up there with “a sharp stick in the eye”…
so youre not going Professor… not attending the Conference or not going to LV at all?
I am not going to Vegas at all. I have far too much exposure to chance anything. I am going to steer clear of any US based events until further notice.
I am not saying that everyone should be this cautious, but I am too fat to fit in Prison Overalls and I hate powdered eggs.
Can we get Marc to comment on this ?
What exactly are affiliates to think….
I think Marc is shell shocked at the moment. I am sure he is totally floored by all of this and could be personally losing tens of thousands of dollars. He’s also probably worried that HE will be wearing steel bracelets for aiding and abetting. Of all of us he is probably the most devastated by all this crap.
Shit, we are all confused and shocked right now. Give Marc a day or so to digest all this and lets see what he says.
I’m an attorney who specializes in Internet gaming law. I have been asked by Marc Lesnick to appear at CAC and speak on the legal issues of Affiliates.
First things first: CALM DOWN, EVERYBODY!
No one can be arrested merely for attending CAC. It’s no crime to listen to presentations and attend a trade show! There are no squadrons of Cossacks waiting to haul everyone off without charge to the gulags.
Second:
I want to point out that in many instances we are not dealing with settled law- the legality of Internet gambling and advertising Internet gambling are still being hotly debated. What one side says is true, says is the law, may or may not be the same thing as the courts would say.
If you feel that you might be at risk, or in an uncomfortable position, there are things that can be done to put you and your business in an acceptable compliance posture. For this, you can consult the professionals.
Third, let’s be realistic: Internet gaming is not a furtive, back-alley vice. It is a multibillion dollar global business, legal and legitimate in over 70 countries. And that includes the USA. A dozen States now license Internet services to take their horse bets. Ten more use the Internet for the ” second chance” drawings of State lotteries. Even arch-conservative and Bible-belt States like North Dakota and Georgia are beginning to consider licensing Internet gambling. That means that the Affiliates and their kind are pioneers, not freaks or jailbirds.
It is true that the Bush administration is against Internet gambling- supposedly for the harm it brings. But when 48 of 50 States license some form of gambling, and take the money as part of their permanent revenue, that attitude starts to look like protectionism with a tin halo, like meddling and spite, like a social agenda in legal drag. They can arrest some, they can intimidate others; what they will never be able to do is make a $12 billion dollar market disappear.
This opposition is just the sort of obstacle that this kind of market has always had to face. But the participants don’t need to stay away, they need to stay informed: to know their rights, to know their options, to know the courses of action that are open to them.
The only people who are walking into a trap are the people who put their heads in the sand and remain ignorant.
I believe in the future of this industry, and I’ll come to CAC Vegas to help all I can.
See you there!
Very Truly Yours,
Martin D. Owens, Jr.
Law Offices of Martin D. Owens, Jr.
372 Florin Rd. #309
Sacramento, CA 95831PH (916) 391 8113 ( Pacific Coast time)
cell (916) 716 7274
Fax (916) 422 5045email [email protected]
Web Page: http://www.trade-attorney.comThank you Martin for the post, I am going for sure! I agree everyone should calm down it’s like panic at the disco in here.
I am ready to drink and have a blast and meet everyone:cheers:Dear Mr Owens
Since when has the US Administration been acting in rational manner? I really do not want to get political, but there have been more the NUMEROUS examples of the US authorities simply executing what they believe is right in the past years (no, Guantanamo never happened and 4 years of inprisonment is all legitimate, right…). I do belive this might just as well be the case here – especially considering the recent crackdown on sportsbetting in the US.
I dont think we are paranoid and we are maybe just slightly getting carried away by this – but for a good reason. We will be facing severe consequences if even part of this turns out to be true and we are there…
In the end it all comes down to a personal decision – i wouldnt call my canceling the stay in Vegas putting my head into the sand though. Theres way too much at stake here to be putting it in such simplistic terms.
Even if this all turns out to be complete bullshit, i have made the choice and i dont think i will ever regret it. Those events happen on a fairly regular basis around the world so if you need to go out there and meet people you will certainly have the chance do to so outside of US.
Thanks for taking the time to pop in Martin. I tend to agree with Bonusstreak. Seems to me there are 4 levels here:
Operators who provide sportsbooks
Operators who dont provide sportsbooks
Affiliates
PlayersThe first level has cause for concern. I can understand why the second level is unsure considering the grey area. The third level, which includes me, personally I feel has no cause for concern…even if the US decided to try and make an example, I firmly believe they don’t have a legal leg to stand on outside of sports betting by phone – as things stand. I think the recent arrests are being happily wielded in public to have exactly the effect it’s having.
But at the end of the day, if you don’t feel comfortable, then don’t go.
I agree that we should not panic and it seems to only be the sportsbetting folks right now.
All of this sucks big time, but I’m NOT changning my plans and I’m going to enjoy every day that I’m in Vegas. That being said, I do know that CAC 2006 will be the last gambling related USA event that I attend.
This latest event confirms for me that my decision to leave the USA for a more gaming friendly country like the Dominican Republic was definately the right move! I’m not going to work for five years to build a business only to have Uncle Sam threaten my livelyhood AND freedom!
I’ve been away (and offline) for a few days, and I am shocked by this turn of events. This is unbelievable! Multiple programs bailing out, people worried about being arrested…. :whoa: :whoa: :whoa:
WHY?
First of all, playing at an online casino is not illegal. If it was, they why is Congress trying to pass a law to make it illegal?
Secondly, owning a website that provides information about gambling is not illegal.
Thirdly, can you imagine a scenario where hundreds of people are arrested in a raid — at a well known Vegas hotel — simply for attending a conference about internet marketing? What would the public think of this once the story hits the press? I think it is doubtful that anything like this would go over very well.
Other points to consider — can the cops prove that you specifically target residents of the U.S.? For all they know, you market exclusively to residents of the U.K., where online gambling is regulated. Not that this point matters anyway, because gambling online remains legal in the U.S., so it shouldn’t matter if you target U.S. residents or not.
Furthermore, ask yourself these questions:
Did I ask the search engines to index my site?
Did I ask anyone to go online and search for gambling phrases?
Did I ask anyone to click on a link that brings up my site, which, for all anyone knows, I built for my own personal entertainment?
Did I force the visitor to click out to an online casino site?
Did I force the visitor to download and install an online casino?
Did I force him to make a deposit?
And was that deposit illegal?So you see, there are many steps along the way that you have no control over. Personally, I don’t think affiliates have much to worry about. Affiliate managers either, really. CEOs excluded, I highly doubt that anyone would be charged for a crime that their company may or may not have committed. Charges need to be specific to the individual, and such an arrest would not stick. First, they need to have a reason to detain you personally; secondly, they’d need to prove, in court, that you broke a law that doesn’t even exist!
Hopefully the conference will still happen, but if it doesn’t, I may fly to Vegas anyway for a personal vacation. We could still meet, party, and have fun with old and new friends.
Engineer wrote:Thirdly, can you imagine a scenario where hundreds of people are arrested in a raid — at a well known Vegas hotel — simply for attending a conference about internet marketing? What would the public think of this once the story hits the press?Youre forgetting that the press and the government are working hand and hand. They would spin that sort of story ten times over and make it sound like they have busted some huge cartel, and the people would believe it like they believe so much other stuff.
It truly is sick, that people have to fear freedom of speech and general freedom of choice.
