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@Professor 142133 wrote:
Again I dont grasp whats going on based on the posts. I am a casual poker player at best so be patient with me and help me get my arms around what’s going on.
1. You said that a player(s) had access to hole cards and could see them. Was this in real time during the tournament? Or was this via a hand history file supplied him/her after the tournament?
2. Can you do me a huge favor and cut and paste the bit of play that shows plainly that the player could see hole cards. Was this determined by screen shots? by his betting pattern? By disclosure?
I can certainly understand stupidity by hosts. Many are poorly paid hourly workers and they may or may not have a clue about what they were doing. If that turns out to be the case then they should be terminated and managment should train remaining operators on what is and isnt sensible to do. These restrictions should also be clearly communicated to staff via an employee handbook which covers what can and cant be sent to players.
Obviously I think its helpful to get your own hand history in a tournament for educational purposes and perhaps a complete Hand History of play as long as it doesnt compromise the identity of other players or provide an unfair advantage in future tournaments.
Please answer 1 and 2 first and lets keep exploring this.
1+2) Watch the replay of the tournament ! That is perfect proof that the player had acces to the opponents holecards.
the rest of your reply just is unfortunately nonsense.
Off course customer service shouldn’t be trained in what to send and what not to send, all this information shouldn’t be available to customer service !
Ok things are strating to make more sense. Thanks for the info. The cliff notes threads helps me to get a clearer picture of whats alleged to have happened.
Ok Let me get this right:
1. Its believed that a player named potripper may have been told what the hole cards of other players were by Scott Tom of AP. This assumption is made based upon potripper not folding after observer 363 started watching the game.
Is that correct?
2. Later in the thread its implied that Potripper might even be Scott Tom. Though this confuses me as it implies he need to occupy two positions to somehow see the hole cards.
3. How much was the tournament for?
4. Its stated that the IP of Scott Toms house was positively identfied. Can we see where this was verified anywhere? Even another poster in the thread said he didnt see proof of this just an accusation stated as fact. Whats the story here do we have difinitive proof?
5. Has anyone asked Spearmaster his take on all this, he is very good analytically and I would love to know his thoughts.
Hostrup those were questions I had an I didnt consider them nonsense. When I used to play at Party Poker you could obtain hand history for tournaments.
Its very easy for people to immediately say something is fraud and look to ban programs at the drop of a hat or a single player accusation. I would like to investigate whats going on before I just ban a certified partner based on a thread on another message board.
@Professor 142145 wrote:
Hostrup those were questions I had an I didnt consider them nonsense. When I used to play at Party Poker you could obtain hand history for tournaments.
Its very easy for people to immediately say something is fraud and look to ban programs at the drop of a hat or a single player accusation. I would like to investigate whats going on before I just ban a certified partner based on a thread on another message board.
Well, just to make it clear – If a site gives customer service access to holecards of all players, it is off course unacceptable ? – Your reply, gives the impression that your view is that customer support should be trained not to give this information away !
It was the $1k buyin tourney. Not sure how much the prizepool was.
Here is another link
http://www.pocketfives.com/1A2FB2BB-5CD5-45F0-8171-EAEDECE3DF73.aspx
but there are so many of them, you pretty much have to just keep reading and absorb whatever you can. I know reading this crap has wasted a lot of my time.
Here are some cliffs from the guy that basically busted AP out. He owns part of Bluff and is involved in thepokerdb.com.
I don’t have any idea how they traced the IP to him. My only guess is someone on the inside at the cable company.
Your #1 is correct, AP claims he has not been with AP in a year even though he has spammed AP/UB at 2+2 from his account as recently as June.
2. All this would take is 2 different computers. 2 laptops side by side could accomplish this.
3. $1050 buyin, $100,000 guarantee NLHE. Potripper won $30,000 for 1st.
4. An anonymous informant claims to have an inside contact at the cable provider. I’m with you, that’s not exactly proof unless this person comes forward.
5. No but I can’t imagine he’s missed the thread at CM. It’s 31 pages now I believe. It’s the longest poker thread ever at CM.
Gamingassociates.com has been traced back to KGC. They are far from an independant auditor.
@Pokeraddict 142148 wrote:
Gamingassociates.com has been traced back to KGC. They are far from an independant auditor.
Yeah, thats the part that has me laughing. AP still thinks we are all retarded.
@actyper 142150 wrote:
Yeah, thats the part that has me laughing. AP still thinks we are all retarded.
And until CAP bans them, CAP makes me laugh !
Was that necessary Hostrup? I consider that rude and uncalled for. I have been in Europe for the last ten days, I just got back and was sick. Today is the first day I am fully back at work. I do NOT follow all conversations at player boards and this is the first I heard of it. I asked for time to investigate whats going on and you are taking an aggressive stance against CAP?
FWIW I just got off the phone with Greg Powell and he HAS been following whats going on and he spoke to Peter from Absolute Poker in Barcelona about this incident. WE ARE INVESTIGATING whats going on and if its determined that there is definitive (not anecdotal) proof of wrong doing then we will act on that.
If thats not satisfactory to you and you consider CAP a joke because we want to do our due dilligence then I guess we shall just have to live with disapproval.
Well excuse me for being “coloured” by history.
Last time I PM’ed you to get help regarding Absolute, you didn’t even reply to PM’s.
:mad::mad::mad:
Quote:Your reply, gives the impression that your view is that customer support should be trained not to give this information away !Hell no! Customer service should not have full backend access I have no idea how this file was obtained or sent out, but its my oppinon right now that this was a mistake and that the WRONG file was sent to the player. I have no idea how the customer service rep made that mistake but it makes no sense that the file went out.
Regarding your past PM and concern I dont recall that and I am generally very proactive when it comes to getting affiliates paid. I have no incentive to ignore you or anyone else. I think our past history at CAP shows that we DO go to bat for affiliates and have done so on hundreds of occasions.
As a matter of fact it was your PM that alerted to come to this thread and here I am. Instead of responding like other members and helping me invsetigate whats going on you decided this was a great opportunity to go on an attack against CAP and me. Real productive and you are really starting to piss me off.
:mad::mad::mad:
Sorry, but it just seems clear to everyone that the Absolute problem is real, and CAP should be on the forefront on things like this !
Didn’t want to piss you off !
In order to make you memorize, i have PM’ed you a copy of PM’s sent earlier on.
Trust me if its proven that they allowed a past or present employee to rig games or tournaments we WILL BARBECUE THEIR ASS.
The last thing our industry needs is a scandal like this to make players uncomfortable about playing. We are taking this VERY seriously.
Ok, this is getting off topic.
I also get so many PMs all the time that I forget to answer some, unfortunately usually the ones I set aside for more attention. So I can understand the oversight as well as the problem with that. Hostrup, please have more human understanding and less snide remarks, it helps things proceed more smoothly that way.
About Absolute:
I gave up following this thread early on because I am a rudimentary poker player and I simply don’t understand the plays well enough to form an opinion.
I just came back to it and am still trying to wrap my head around it.
From what I see we are quite certain that the play was suspicious and that it could ONLY have happened if the player saw the hole cards. Correct?
I am going to ignore Scott Toms for now since there is no definite proof there.
But the real issue is that absolute released confidential information? Correct?
Please be patient with me, I haven’t read day’s worth of threads and looking at them I get confused.
@Dominique 142161 wrote:
Ok, this is getting off topic.
I also get so many PMs all the time that I forget to answer some, unfortunately usually the ones I set aside for more attention. So I can understand the oversight as well as the problem with that. Hostrup, please have more human understanding and less snide remarks, it helps things proceed more smoothly that way.
About Absolute:
I gave up following this thread early on because I am a rudimentary poker player and I simply don’t understand the plays well enough to form an opinion.
I just came back to it and am still trying to wrap my head around it.
From what I see we are quite certain that the play was suspicious and that it could ONLY have happened if the player saw the hole cards. Correct?
I am going to ignore Scott Toms for now since there is no definite proof there.
But the real issue is that absolute released confidential information? Correct?
Please be patient with me, I haven’t read day’s worth of threads and looking at them I get confused.
1. Point taken
2. The issues are:
A) AP has users with ability to see all holecards.
AP has neglected the entire case
C) AP users have been cheated by someone using this ability
D) AP support has been sending out confidential information
E) It looks like that A) has been used by former AP CEO.
