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can Absolute comment on this ?
I wasn’t sure about posting it here because I doubt the affiliate program is really going to have anything to do with this solution. This situation has a great chance of ruining Absolute Poker forever though, especially if they don’t respond to this immediately.
So many people (including myself) feel AP was in on this and many feel (not me) that Mark Seif is the cheat. Even if they were not in on it the fact their software is so insecure and the cheaters got away with it for this long shows how poor security is over at AP. The longer AP takes to answer to this the more speculation there will be and if any funds are returned. I seriously doubt players will get their money back though, especially if AP is in on it.
Edit: Here is the part 2 thread. The OP is a great cliff note:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=beats&Number=12106375&page=0&fpart=1
AP made what appears to be a mistake and emailed a player cheated in a $1000 MTT the master hh’s log in raw format as a spreadsheet. The data was translated into raw hh’s and Potripper’s entire tourney has been posted here:
http://www.pocketfives.com/AB0A6FCE-734B-425B-AA64-036D3A99D2CC.aspx
It is VERY important that all affiliates (and all poker players for that matter) read the hand histories from start to finish. This is especially true if you have had any doubts about whether there was cheating. This is 100% proof that there was cheating and that Absolute Poker has tried to cover it up. They also breached all player privacy by even allowing this master hh to even get emailed by support even though it was finally the smoking gun needed for 100% proof although it has been obvious for a long time.
Absolute Poker has either cheated players out of hundreds of thousands of dollars themselves or they have allowed others to do so by covering it up. This is as serious as it gets. Many major poker portals are writing stories about this as we speak. Casinomeister has rogued AP and several other portals have already stopped promoting AP.
To CAP, I hope you see the importance in this being presented to affiliates. AP has been very dishonest this year and this really takes the cake. Affiliates should see what could happen to their players if they continue to promote AP. If a casino got caught cheating I would assume it would be discussed here, this is no different IMO.
AP has been completely silent as a master hh proving AP or an AP employee was involved in a massive cheating scandal broke this weekend. In the meantime AP has been blacklisted at a large poker affiliate site, rogued at Casinomeister and there is a massive uproar from poker players for affiliates to drop support immediately. Card Player will be interviewing the 2nd place finisher in the MTT that played the cheat HU and it appears the cheat entered the MTT multiple times, presumably in case he got knocked out on an allin suckout. Also a part owner of Bluff is one of the people that helped parse the spreadsheet the MTT master hand history came in. This about guarantees some sort of write up in Bluff about this.
Is AP going to continue to ignore this? Until now AP can use the excuse that most players don’t read poker forums but now this will start to hit more mainstream media. AP is gambling with their business by ignoring this. Every day that goes by greatly increases their chances of a devastating outcome.
@AP.
What is your view on this.
Are you evaluating AP as a certified partner due to their handling of this cheating.
The HH shows very clearly that players at AP have been cheated, and you cannot continue a Poker site that doesnt respond to this.
Best regards
hostrup
Guys we are looking into this issue and I have also asked Greg Powell from PAP to investigate. To be totally honest I dont have enough info yet to sort out whats going on.
It has been another eventful day as there becomes more and more evidence against AP insiders. This thread is worth a read:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=12523924&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
@Professor 142027 wrote:
Guys we are looking into this issue and I have also asked Greg Powell from PAP to investigate. To be totally honest I dont have enough info yet to sort out whats going on.
Well – a Poker Site that reveals user names, hole cards, IP adresses etc, shouldnt be given the benefit of the doubt !
@hostrup 142032 wrote:
Well – a Poker Site that reveals user names, hole cards, IP adresses etc, shouldnt be given the benefit of the doubt !
Let them investigate it. Many affiliates have delisted and/or blacklisted AP/UB. Al of them are hardcore large poker affiliates (Bonuswhores, Pocketfives, Neverwinpoker and the Pokerlistings family) and I understand why diversified affiliates would not be as involved and would not know all that has exploded in the last few days.
I see an insanely long thread at a message board discussing hands played at AP. It’s so rediculously long and tedious to read that I cant make sense of the allegations or the proof offered that hole cards were shown or that AP was duplicitous in this.
I am not saying there isnt a problem or thats there isnt fraud. I just am having trouble seeing clear cut proof of this based on the few pages of the thread I read. Its obvious posters felt something was definitely amiss.
Can anyone provide a brief overview of:
A) What actually went on
b) The smoking gun, data or proof that hole cards were supplied to one or more players.
c) Explain why Absolute Poker would benefit from something as wildly irrational as this. I mean if its true and uncovered its a very serious problem that would have to cost them far more then anything they could have hoped to gain by taking part in a scam like this.
d) More of item C. Doesnt AP derive income based on rake of hands played and via tournament entry fees like everyone else? Why would they care if one or more players won and why would they put their business on the line to allow that to happen? How would this increase their earnings enough to justify the risk?Again I am not saying there isnt something wrong I just am having a hell of time following any of this.
@Professor 142130 wrote:
I see an insanely long thread at a message board discussing hands played at AP. It’s so rediculously long and tedious to read that I cant make sense of the allegations or the proof offered that hole cards were shown or that AP was duplicitous in this.
I am not saying there isnt a problem or thats there isnt fraud. I just am having trouble seeing clear cut proof of this based on the few pages of the thread I read. Its obvious posters felt something was definitely amiss.
Can anyone provide a brief overview of:
A) What actually went on
b) The smoking gun, data or proof that hole cards were supplied to one or more players.
c) Explain why Absolute Poker would benefit from something as wildly irrational as this. I mean if its true and uncovered its a very serious problem that would have to cost them far more then anything they could have hoped to gain by taking part in a scam like this.
d) More of item C. Doesnt AP derive income based on rake of hands played and via tournament entry fees like everyone else? Why would they care if one or more players won and why would they put their business on the line to allow that to happen? How would this increase their earnings enough to justify the risk?Again I am not saying there isnt something wrong I just am having a hell of time following any of this.
WOW, You have missed the point, you havn’t spend enough time reading the posts.
A. It is perfectly clear that the user had Access to holecards. Watch the replay of the tournament, and you vill be chocked.
B. Replay of the handhistory is the smoking gun.
C. You dont understand – no one accuse Absolute of gaining anything !
Their handling of the case is the problem, and the fact that they send out handhistories, e-mails and IP information without getting permission from users is just too stupid.Again I dont grasp whats going on based on the posts. I am a casual poker player at best so be patient with me and help me get my arms around what’s going on.
1. You said that a player(s) had access to hole cards and could see them. Was this in real time during the tournament? Or was this via a hand history file supplied him/her after the tournament?
2. Can you do me a huge favor and cut and paste the bit of play that shows plainly that the player could see hole cards. Was this determined by screen shots? by his betting pattern? By disclosure?
I can certainly understand stupidity by hosts. Many are poorly paid hourly workers and they may or may not have a clue about what they were doing. If that turns out to be the case then they should be terminated and managment should train remaining operators on what is and isnt sensible to do. These restrictions should also be clearly communicated to staff via an employee handbook which covers what can and cant be sent to players.
Obviously I think its helpful to get your own hand history in a tournament for educational purposes and perhaps a complete Hand History of play as long as it doesnt compromise the identity of other players or provide an unfair advantage in future tournaments.
Please answer 1 and 2 first and lets keep exploring this.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=beats&Number=12541923&page=0&fpart=1
That is a good cliff note.
In Brief:
Player Potripper made plays which were impossible to make without having knowledge of other players hole cards. Certain members of the community were given data (hand histories) after the fact regarding the tournament. Evidence has been found that an observer entered the tournament after the 13th hand, from that point on, the “superaccount” potripper, played flawless poker. IP address for the observer (account #363) has been found to have belong to an Absolute Poker server. New evidence has been collected and has connected former Absolute CEO Scott Tom.
Sites to visit for more info on this include http://www.natarem.com http://www.pocketfives.com or the 2+2 links posted previously.
Absolute official statement
Entire Absolute Poker Statement:
Absolute Poker Management wishes to inform the poker community of the following information in response to the most recent claims posted over the past 48 hours on the 2+2 and Pocket Fives forums wherein again it is alleged that some person or persons breached Absolute Poker’s redundant and varying levels of game client security. As was stated in Absolute Poker’s Official Response released on Friday October 12, 2007, Absolute Poker conducted an extensive investigation in response to the claims it was made aware of and received. The results of that investigation indicated that to the best of Absolute Poker’s knowledge, information and belief there was no security breach. Specifically, Absolute Poker’s internal investigation determined that it is impossible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards.
Based on the most recent claims that Absolute Poker has been made aware of and at the request of some of our players and business partners, Absolute Poker has agreed to retain a widely acclaimed independent third party auditor, Gaming Associates, to conduct an independent audit of Absolute Poker’s security systems. Specifically, Absolute Poker has requested that Gaming Associates conduct a thorough and extensive review of Absolute Poker’s practices and security systems to determine whether it is possible for any person, device, program, script or other means to see hole cards thereby gaining an unfair advantage. (http://www.gamingassociates.com)
Absolute Poker has agreed to fully cooperate with Gaming Associates and its investigative team and to provide the above with unfettered access to all systems, protocols and databases at Absolute Poker worldwide. Absolute Poker has also agreed to allow Gaming Associate’s final report to be made available to Pocket Fives and Bluff Media for their review.
With respect to the claims that Scott Tom, a former Member of Team Absolute Poker, is in anyway involved in wrong-doing, Absolute Poker has requested a formal investigation into that matter as well. Mr. Tom has not been involved with Absolute Poker for over a year and to the best of our knowledge, information and belief has not had access to any of Absolute Poker’s systems, databases or information.
Absolute Poker reserves the right to pursue any and all remedies whether in law or equitable which may procure to it as a result of any unlawful and injurious actions taken by any individuals who may have falsified any information, documents, files, or have by other means attempted to disparage and/or harm Absolute Poker, its Players, its current or former management, employees, business partners or affiliates.
Absolute Poker shall bear all expenses related to such investigation and is eager to learn about Gaming Associate’s findings. Absolute Poker highly values and intends to protect its players, shareholders, business partners, and affiliates.
Absolute Poker Management
