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Triple777’s,
Come on, first of all, what does this have to do with the report? Our report isn’t even our report. We simply published what we received from CAP. If there was missing data in the report, I don’t see how that’s our responsibility. In fact, I think that even further vindicates us, to be honest. Furthermore, you can clearly see the $180 withdrawal in your account.
I’m doing the best I can to accommodate you here and I want to help you out, but I honestly can’t understand what the issue is. I wasn’t laughing at you, I was laughing at how far we’ve digressed from the original issue. The original issue is this: The CAP Audit Whitepaper was TOTALLY INCORRECT. Every initial deposit was tracked save one new depositor. Every single second deposit was accounted for as well. Please explain the issue more clearly and we can work through it together.
Triple777s;195111 wrote:You know what, i am done. i have handed my account info over to those in charge to see themselves i am not going to sit here and go back and forth with you, and your little sarcastic “lol”. I have a minus amount for nov. and i have a 1.44 for dec. and i have a withdrawal of 180 for jan. and in the report you posted here, you show two withdawals from all 8 players involved, one for 800 and one for 163$…..?? wheres the 180$….and where is the dep and for jan. and the supposed winning amount for jan.??? this is ridiculous, and if i don;t get a good enough explanation instead of little “lol”‘s i will not promote, and i will tell my players to stay away period, i don’t have time for this crap.My stats show nothing, and i mean nothing, of what your report shows here. period. LOL
the report i am talking about is the one your post has in the beginning of this thread with the link to YOUR report. And what do you mean my account clearly shows a withdrawal for 180$>> I KNOW IT does! i want to know where it came from???? Dec. or Nov??? because neither of them show my player winning! is this clear enough for you?
Hi Pat,
It’s pretty simple:
Your player deposited $150.
Your player won $30 in Nov.$150 + $30 = $180, which is the amount the player has chosen to withdraw in January.
Is this clear enough for you?
Triple777s;195116 wrote:the report i am talking about is the one your post has in the beginning of this thread with the link to YOUR report. And what do you mean my account clearly shows a withdrawal for 180$>> I KNOW IT does! i want to know where it came from???? Dec. or Nov??? because neither of them show my player winning! is this clear enough for you?edit:
Just to be completely accurate: Player won $35 in Nov, lost $5 in Dec.
Hi Joshua and welcome to the jungle.
When I first (remembered) to look for the results (today) … I read the closed thread first.
My thoughts were … glad I didn’t promote them (this due to some seasoned affs I have been talking with … and combining their responses made my decision).
Then I read this thread and as such I really don’t think much of what has come about in respect to it effecting my decison procvess on whether to promote this brand.
I still have my most counted upon method which is actually talking to those that I know … know something about this industry.
experience speaks volumes to me.
so I”m back to where I started with these exceptions:
1) I’m actually inclined to give them a chance because they were not given a fair jump out of the gate if I understand correct … NONE of the second deposits were ever made by any of the testers?
If true then I think the testers need to be more adamant about completing their responsibilities and being aware the damage they can cause when not …
2) Joshua, you’re far from out of the woods. I don’t even hear the sound of cars in the far distant yet so don’t light up any cigars.
A) As the Prof so astutely points out: your approach to tracking leaves us older affs concerned because of the reasons he mentioned way, way back at the start of this thread and ones that I don’t think you’ve ever chosen to address. Such as the cookies not overwriting like the standard. We all know that you are setting up a situation for one person to get rich off the work of the rest of us by having that backwards way of overwriting cookies. And I am as backwards as it gets so if i understand the problem then your people should fully see the flaw and be scrambling to fix it.
Pat, why don’t you go ahead and toss up what you have for us all to see and I”m certain between the bunch we will figure out the situation to everyone’s satisfaction. (I put that one in your category Joshua because its your problem if it don’t look right. fair? And Pat seems pretty adamant there is a situationC) They only last 2 weeks … a period of time that the testers obviously can’t even seem to find time to get back in and gamble so its a given there are going to be a lot of playrers that download the software and don’t actually sign up to play for a period out lasting that sorry stretch of time.
D) Joshua as you can see there are more issues than just the audit and they should be given as much attention as the audit … perhaps more since there was an error with the audit.
I know the 2 week thing and the way the cookies overwrite are both deal breakers for obvious reasons. Why would i choose to send a player to some place where I”ve only got 2 weeks and then I lose them to the casino by default … which to be quite frank … feels predatory to me … and I don’t work knowingly with those kind of partners.
When I could send them some place that gives me … I believe the Prof wrote 90 days was standard? considerable difference eh?
Sum Up: Joshua I don’t think by any stretch of the imagination that it is unfair to say that your program has a ways to go before being completely aff-friendly but I don’t think your program should be condemned based on the audit.
It should be viewed with the audit aside and I still don’t think its going to be given a lot of thumbs up. But I know I”d withold my thumbs down if I heard a promise of reform on the overwriting and length of time.
My aff. stats
Nov. Deposit $75. My earnings… [ – $36.57 ]
Dec. Deposit $75. My earnings… + $1.44
Jan. Dep. None. My earnings …. 0…..player withdrawal..180$If what your saying is correct, and you are forcing aff. to take your word for this because your stats do not show….Player winnings, how much and when. I still do not trust your site, because i can not see for myself, what my player won, when and why each month has a different final amount. Why would i have a dollar 44 cent in the positive in dec. if my player had me minus in nov with the same money and then again in january another minus amount with a 180$ withdrawal from the same money…..and no proof of this for me to see?
The reason is because we don’t have a negative carry over.
The math:
Nov, Dep $75 – win $36. Net gaming = $0.
Dec, Dep $75 – lost $6. Net gaming = 25% of $6 = $1.25
Jan, Withdrawal. Balance is $75 + $36 + $75 – $6 = $180.How does this not make sense to you?
Triple777s;195121 wrote:My aff. statsNov. Deposit $75. My earnings… [ – $36.57 ]
Dec. Deposit $75. My earnings… + $1.44
Jan. Dep. None. My earnings …. 0…..player withdrawal..180$If what your saying is correct, and you are forcing aff. to take your word for this because your stats do not show….Player winnings, how much and when. I still do not trust your site, because i can not see for myself, what my player won, when and why each month has a different final amount. Why would i have a dollar 44 cent in the positive in dec. if my player had me minus in nov with the same money and then again in january another minus amount with a 180$ withdrawal from the same money…..and no proof of this for me to see?
Here are my screenshots for my peers to look at and leave thier opinion on my situation.
[IMG]http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/attachment.php?attachmentid=507&stc=1&d=1232675230[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/attachment.php?attachmentid=508&stc=1&d=1232675294[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/attachment.php?attachmentid=509&stc=1&d=1232675414[/IMG]
Triple777s;195123 wrote:Here are my screenshots for my peers to look at and leave thier opinion on my situation.Pat, how does this negate what I said? And what is the problem? What don’t you understand?
I think the lessons that can be learned here are:
a: The test was inaccurate and it is unfair to judge rome or the founders based on this report. It was flawed and it needs to be put to rest.
b: Something needs to be done to ensure reports are accurate from hereonforth.
c: The stats at Rome could be improved to show more transparency so that affiliates are not confused. Casinorewards and wagershare have the best stats in the industry and I would look there for ideas. This is not to say the stats are not accurate, but more info would help build trust.
To summarize I don’t think we can judge Rome on this and I publicaly apologize if my earlier post in another thread gave the impression that I don’t trust them. I did state that they have one of the best conversion rates that I have seen anywhere and this has not changed. I think Josh is one of the more honest guys in this industry and I am glad to hear that the report was flawed versus the alternative.
all right lets break this down.
lets deal with November first. Dec. and jan. aren’t even in the picture yet ok.
Player deposits $75. no withdrawals, but my commision is negative $36 and change? why? thats over half of their dep. and thats JUST FOR NOV.???????
Triple777s;195128 wrote:all right lets break this down.lets deal with November first. Dec. and jan. aren’t even in the picture yet ok.
Player deposits $75. no withdrawals, but my commision is negative $36 and change? why? thats over half of their dep. and thats JUST FOR NOV.???????
The player won $36. How should the stats reflect this if not: Net Gaming= -$36
Ok, fine. Whatever you say. i don’t like your stats, don’t trust your stats, and thats my opinion and i am just glad i have not sent any players. good luck to you and unless i am asked to say anything else from robin or the prof. i am done.
Triple777s;195131 wrote:Ok, fine. Whatever you say. i don’t like your stats, don’t trust your stats, and thats my opinion and i am just glad i have not sent any players. good luck to you and unless i am asked to say anything else from robin or the prof. i am done.Listen Pat, I can’t and won’t argue with you about whether or not you like our stats.
Antoine is correct in the fact that our stats are not entirely clear, although affiliates that have been working with us seem to be getting along without a problem.
Pat, I’m not asking you to work with us, I’m simply asking you give us a fair shake in your accusations. For anyone reading this thread, you are claiming that we are doing something wrong. I have shown you that this is not at all the case, and I think my explanation makes sense.
The numbers add up, and the stats, although confusing to you, reflect the situation. I will clarify this again.
November:
The auditor you sent made a $75 deposit. She won $36. Your net gaming for November shows: -$36. Your earnings for November = $0.The auditor’s balance is: $111
December:
The auditor made another $75 deposit. This time the auditor lost $6. The net gaming is $6. Your earnings for December = $1.25.The auditor’s balance = $111 +$75 -$6 =$180.
January: Auditor requests withdrawal. Your net gaming = $0. Your earnings = $0.
All of this, by the way, distracts us from the original reason of this audit. To check our tracking. Which the above confirms works perfectly, and the 2nd deposits were tracked 100%.
Guys I have been at one of my daughters high school for her initiation into Beta Club (Its an honor that only 1 in 44 applicants can acheive) and I wasnt aware we had this storm brewing.
Unfortunately rather then let the situation clear a few people have decided it would be more entertaining trying to find someone to crucify rather work on a positive way to make the CAP audits more effective. We have always prided ourselves on working to keep CAP a positive and professional enviroment where we can all grow our businesses. Sometimes passions flare and that detracts from the discussion. So I am going to try to get us refocused on a positive approach.
CBG we do the best we can. We had eight teams of seasoned affiliates. That’s sixteen volunteers. It’s a reasonable number of testers to get a good sample. And thats the pool that were gracious enough to offer help. We would be thrilled and honored to have Casinomeister join us in testing though I suspect he has his hands full trying to service his community and keep it the safe haven for players that its always been. If YOU want to HELP the affiliate community I invite you to volunteer and join in future audits. That would be far more valuable to your peers then suggesting we cancel the auditing program or post the negative remarks you did tonight.
There were communications issues apparently and I quickly posted that once Robin made us aware of her position. Up until 8:00PM or so last night we all seemed to be in unison on the audit data. It’s become clear that there was a disconnect of some sort between what I was told and forwarded to our staff for publication an what Josh (Caeser) has presented.
Through out the entire incident I was clear that in my oppinion, and based on everything I saw and was told, that Rome Casino was NOT acting maliciously or shaving or anything of the sort.
I believed then and still believe that Top Game will be an excellent product for US players and Affiliates who service the US Market once a few issues with the cookies are corrected.
I stand by that assertion based on the data I had to work with. And again I stand by Rome Casino and Top Game as partners you should NOT cross off your list of choices to work with.
That was never our objective and its not the purpose of a CAP audit. This isnt a witch hunt.Guys the CAP audits were designed to benefit affiliates. We went out on a limb to even do this as we knew we could potentially alienate certified partners who would react negatively to an audit. We earn NOTHING from the audits. They are NOT a sales product and we purposely did NOT include our staff in the testing.
We wanted the tests performed by real affiliates so they were as independant of CAP as possible and so that the results would not be subject to any su****ion of manipluation.
We wanted to make the CAP Audits a valuable source of information while involving our affiliate members throuhout the entire process. And we are still committed to that end goal.
Each audit costs us thousands of dollars to perform because WE send out the money to the testers for deposit. We do this in good faith and to benefit our community and the industry as a whole. This was our first audit and it’s been a learning experience to say the least.
I believe the audits have true value as an resource to help affiliates make informed decisions when choosing a partner to work with.
They are not a GUIDE of who you should work with and never will be. As independant business operators we all make that personal choice based on the data and feedback available to us.
Hopefully in the future when all the kinks are ironed out and testing is uniform and monitored for 100% accuracy in each and every step then CAP audits will be a powerful added resource for our members.
We arent perfect. Our testers arent perfect. They are volunteers and we appreciate their efforts. If for whatever reason there was a misunderstanding or we didnt adequately explain each and every step required than we will correct the errors and improve the results we share with you. This will be an ongoing process because of its very nature.
I invite all affiliates to contact Gamtrak and join us in testing so you can help us acheive our mutual goals which are accurate and dependable statsitcs and reporting. As affiliates that’s what determines our earnings so its an important task worth doing.
For the sake of sleep I am going to close the thread until tomorrow as I want to ensure the conversation remains productive and positive. I personally appologize for any errors we encountered in the first audit and you have my commitment that we will ensure each future audit incoporates checks and balances and the input and ideas you guys supply.
As I mentioned earlier to ensure the audits are effective please share those ideas directly with either Gamtrak, Dominique, Arjun or myself posting in a thread where the programs will read it is not going to help the cause.
Thanks and see you all in London. :hattip:
I might be wrong but I think fault lies with the person(s) that interpreted Robin’s report. If the time wasn’t taken to converse with her about the findings then they made the judgements on their own.
The white paper report should never have been published until all parties analyzed the data……it seems to me it was analyzed by whomever put the report together and I know for a fact that wasn’t Robin nor was it ever discussed with her.
I personally feel Robin did a good job…….I feel it was a problem of ppl understanding the software………I know this because of the clients we have that use the same software platform…..It took a while before I ever realized it had to be viewed month to month.
Now to ensure further correct audits, make it mandetory that screenshots be sent to the audit team leader of all deposits and withdrawals. What good does it do to have test players if all they are going to do is take the money and run?
Its unfortunate that this has come at the expense of Rome Casino……hopefully a retracted statement can be made by the Professor even tho it did point out some flaws that needed to be addressed.
