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@Satya 142396 wrote:
I can see two possible ways to combat this issue. Either work with the rooms who don’t offer rake backs or if they allow rake back, they don’t allow multiple accounts or changing of the affiliate tags or work on a cpa deal with these rooms. Also apart from the fact that you may decide not to work with these rooms at all.
That’s for the birds.
The problem with working with programs that forbid rakeback is that the players get stolen anyway and go to other rooms when they become profitable. I bet retention at these rooms is working overtime, but hard to pull off.
Besides, my trust in ANY poker room is thoroughly shattered since they for the most part openly say one thing and then make secret deals under the table.
As long as my poker properties support themselves without any particular effort on my side, I will sit and wait and hope the current structure crumbles and I will be there when it becomes a decent environment to work in, free of theft and lies.
If they stop supporting themselves or give me any headaches, I’ll just take them down. I won’t be shedding any tears, I don’t like working in an industry that endorses lying and theft.
I will stop promode poker sites from now…
Maby only promode 1or 2 if there are any honest back…
I have bring Poker Champs about 3000 players… and my earnings are a BIG 00000000000
Mann it can not be right.
Anyone know a honest poker site for affiliates ?
Maby if we all stop promode thise poker crap they will begin
work honest with us.@Dominique 142393 wrote:
Casinos look at it as “incentivised play” and frown on it.
IMO that is what is happening. Answering to queries with instructions of how to dump an existing affiliate does exactly that.
If an affiliate comes to your site and asks about receiving a kick back from a casino because they play a lot would you first ask them if they are registered under an existing affiliate? (Uhm No) Chances are they wont even know what you are talking about! I think that developing a portal that has information about promotions, bonuses and offers is what we all do here. If one of those offers is incentive driven play (rakeback, cash points, etc) AND if it is allowable by the network then affiliates will do whatever they think will bets convert new players.
Flame Away – oh yea there is a blog post on this as well
That situation never happened in over 6 years.
then affiliates will do whatever they think will bets convert new players
They are not converting new players, they are stealing old players. Thats the entire argument. There is a difference, you know.
i think you are painting wide strokes to categorize all rb affils. yes some actively pursue players and teach them how to sign up again at the same room and that is wrong. but some non rb affils blackhat and spam, and we dont cast the entire rev share affiliates under that net. we find established and non established players and introduce them to new skins or new platforms with the rb incentive as the draw. we have started coaching and building partnerships with poker coaching sites to develop newer players. we picked a segment of market and figured out how to get them under our programs. we are playing within the rules that the industry has dictated.
i feel as if some of the non rb affils are acting very much the victim role. things in the market changed, then you must change to keep up with it. if you have the presence and important content on your site to teach a player and introduce them to this wonderful game, they will surely have some loyalty to you, why dont you develop your site to cater to the player once hes out of the pond? i know of affiliates who have built software systems that can be implemented into your existing brand to offer your players incentives of a cpa or mgr nature. if thats what the players want when they understand the game, GIVE IT TO THEM. or they will just jump to a different network or skin, and theyd be silly not to.
I understand that openly taking tracked player and moving them at that same room under oneself is theft, but moving them to another room IS NOT. This is standard practice in just about any business i can think of.
as for party not ever endorsing rb that is pure comedy. we were working closely with them and openly discussing rb in their offices as recently as CAP London. there were certain parts of the organization who were clearly against it (Gibraltar), but London endorsed it and let us do it.
Finally the comedy at AMsterdam, was when vikrant asked thomas of rakerebate.net ” is it ok to reach into someone elses wallet and steal money” thomas replied ‘yes, they left their wallet there for the taking’
the context of the conversation seemed that thomas may have misheard vikrant.
poaching is probably a more accurate term as it describes what is going on. Rev share affiliates have a reserve full of players with a nice fence around it by the program that guarantees “rev share for life”. At the same time they allow rb affiliates to come in cut down the fence and poach these players.
I think what is the biggest threat to the RB affs is that they can get screwed over just as easily as the Doyle case illustrated. If they had some more of the untracked “cross marketing” assaults that the casino industry has seen (Gand Prive) on the Poker side then being an RB aff wouldn’t be much fun anymore.
@rogerlodge 142443 wrote:
Finally the comedy at AMsterdam, was when vikrant asked thomas of rakerebate.net ” is it ok to reach into someone elses wallet and steal money” thomas replied ‘yes, they left their wallet there for the taking’
“Vikrant” – thanks for jogging my memory, I couldn’t remember his name and it was driving me nuts.
He was quite the speaker there, unexpected and very forceful. Seems like that was a memorable session, everyone remembers it quite well. I wish the blackhat discussion in Amsterdam had gone the same way – it could have been food for thought also if it had taken a different course.@rogerlodge 142443 wrote:
I understand that openly taking tracked player and moving them at that same room under oneself is theft, but moving them to another room IS NOT. This is standard practice in just about any business i can think of.
Whether the player is taken openly and moved to a new account in the same room, or clandestinely, it’s still theft.
I agree that wooing player in a legitimate way is not theft and is common practice, and I am not complaining about that. That’s just business.
@rogerlodge 142443 wrote:
as for party not ever endorsing rb that is pure comedy. we were working closely with them and openly discussing rb in their offices as recently as CAP London. there were certain parts of the organization who were clearly against it (Gibraltar), but London endorsed it and let us do it.
Now this is the second part I complain about – the dishonesty of the poker rooms. The public stance and then the breaking of their own rules under the table. It’s the poker rooms serving up a bunch of lies. It makes me not believe a thing they say.
Competition is healthy and different business models are healthy too, they help the consumer get better service and thus help the overall industry. Nothing wrong with that.
It’s the stealing and lying that pervades the poker industry that is the problem.
Blackhatters are not industry specific, they will jump on any horse that will pull the cart. The problems arising from rakeback as it is practiced are specific to poker.
If I remember correctly, there were even issues with rakeback affs stealing from other rakeback affs..
“Whether the player is taken openly and moved to a new account in the same room, or clandestinely, it’s still theft.”
i agree completely and any affiliate worth his salt would as well. i guess knowingly would be the more accurate term.
@rogerlodge 142443 wrote:
i feel as if some of the non rb affils are acting very much the victim role. .
You are absolutely right! Spot on!
I have sent hundreds of players to poker rooms on revenue share deals and now someone else make profits on these players.
Maybe it’s only 80% of the rakeback affiliates who steals players, but that’s also too many and I doesn’t help when some of the the poker rooms have the same disgusting agenda.
And yes. I am fucking angry!
Casinolisten going undercover!
Quote:To: [email protected]
Subject: Rakeback?
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:27:05 +0200
Hello,I have played at PokerPlex since January. I just found out that some players receive rakeback. I would also like to receive this. I have contacted the website where I found pokerplex, but they won’t give me rakeback. Can you help?
I rake $2000-$4000 every month.
Is it possible to be moved to a rakeback affiliate?
Thanks
Reply from Pokerplex
(Probably the same call center/support on all Cryptologic Poker rooms. Probably the same answer from other poker rooms/networks…)
Quote:Thank you for contacting Pokerplex support regarding your rakeback query.PLease kindly be advise that we could not locate an account for you with the details given, your name and email address. Will you threfore provide us with your account ID, next time you contact us.
Further to your enquiry regarding rakeback, may we suggest that you register a new account through an affiliate, which will then allow you to receive rakeback. Unfortunately we are not in a position to advise you which affiliate to choose.
If we can be of any more assistance please do not hesitate to contact us. We are here for you 24 hours per day 365 days per year. If you’d rather call a full list of our numbers can be found at http://www.pokerplex.com/contactus.shtml
Kind regards
Customer Service
PokerPlex:flush::Pisser::shooter::dafingers:beatup::cuss:
Excellent detective work there Mr Watson :hattip:
Pisses you off when you read it.
These emails about Cryptos should not be a surprise. AFAIK all Cryptos will let you create a second account as long as you do not do it to double dip the bonus. They always have. I guess allowing it for rakeback helps them to compete with the other skins.
@Pokeraddict 142486 wrote:
These emails about Cryptos should not be a surprise. AFAIK all Cryptos will let you create a second account as long as you do not do it to double dip the bonus. They always have. I guess allowing it for rakeback helps them to compete with the other skins.
Maybe they allow players to have more than one account, but when the poker support ask players to open new accounts through other affiliates so they can get rakeback I think it’s a BIG problem! We are talking about CAP CERTIFIED PROGRAMS.
Cryptologic poker rooms are history on my sites and I am sure more will follow soon!
Well, InterPoker takes it a step further.
The InterPoker support asks players to open a PartnerLogic account and play through their own tracker?
Quote:Hello,I have played at InterPoker since January. I just found out that some players receive rakeback. I would also like to receive this. I have contacted the website where I found InterPoker, but they won’t give me rakeback. Can you help?
I rake $2000-$4000 every month.
Is it possible to be moved to a rakeback affiliate?
Thanks
InterPoker support
Quote:Hello and thank you for contacting the InterPoker support team regarding your rakeback query.Please kindly be advised that we could not locate an account for you with the details give. We need your account ID/username.
If you wish to receive rakeback you must sign up through partnerlogic. Please use this link https://www1.partnerlogic.com/ for further information.
If we can be of any more assistance please do not hesitate to contact us. We are here for you 24 hours per day 365 days per year. If you ‘d rather call a full list of our numbers can be found at http://www.interpoker.com/help/contact_us.shtml
Kind regards
Customer Service
InterPoker:nono:
Haha, so who is getting screwed now RB affs? If this becomes a trend then the job of the poker affiliate will be history pretty soon.
I hope they don’t pull stunts like that with regards to casino related inquiries over at Partnerlogic :sarcasm:
@Casinolisten 142579 wrote:
Well, InterPoker takes it a step further.
The InterPoker support asks players to open a PartnerLogic account and play through their own tracker?
InterPoker support
:nono:
well its not quite that straight cut.
Both companies said they couldnt find an account for you = to them you are a brand new customer and not a customer who is tagged to another affiliate.
