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Hi Dom..
I think you make my point ….yours.. and actually Dans
we need a level playing field. let us decide whether to accept the % …. or not.
allowing ….. as you said …… under the table deals ….. is BS!
no getting around it.
Dominique;144149 wrote:Bringing advertisers in to provide incentives is not only outside of common business practice, it has resulted in theft (both from affiliates and from the rooms) and shady under the table deals.Affiliates have been promoting bonusses from day 1 and some of them are even paid by the affiliate out of the commission.
If anything it is these kind of bonus deals you should be concentrating on. Because I don’t have a single cost as an affiliate promoting rakeback. I get my revenue share without any deductions what so ever (not talking chargebacks or anything like that of course).
The offers are completely paid by the pokerroom and I am just the advertiser.
/Mike
Maybe you personally don’t teach players how to open new accounts, and maybe you personally don’t make under the table deals with rooms that screw all other affiliates (including rakeback ones), but the business model of having affiliates handle comps has given rise to that.
Hi Dom.
Please tell me how affiliates handles rakeback? And how this handling is different from the bonusses that are being offered by rev share affiliates?
/Mike
11 Pages of this thread?
It seems a little weird that we are fighting about something that has been going on for the past 4 years now? Poker rooms are not going to stop a business model (rakeback) that attributes to half of their top 10 affiliates revenue. Likewise, affiliates who are making money doing this are not going to cease either. As long as there is a percentage cap and affiliates are working within the rooms guidelines then I don’t see much of a problem with it because…
The alternative for non-rakeback affiliates is simple. Promote only those rooms who do not allow their affiliates to advertise rakeback offers.
(Party Poker, bWin Network (Ongame), Microgaming)Rakeback Thread on PAP
We don’t fight here, we talk. Anybody fights, I come out with my
and break it up.Obviously we don’t think its as simple as that or we wouldn’t have this as a recurring topic for several years, since it’s inception actually.
IMO it’s as bad an idea now as it was then.
indeed:
Quote:The alternative for non-rakeback affiliates is simple. Promote only those rooms who do not allow their affiliates to advertise rakeback offers.
(Party Poker, bWin Network (Ongame), Microgaming)and Everest
@gregpowell 144197 wrote:
11 Pages of this thread?
The alternative for non-rakeback affiliates is simple. Promote only those rooms who do not allow their affiliates to advertise rakeback offers.
(Party Poker, bWin Network (Ongame), MicrogamingIt’s easy to get rakeback on the bWin Network (Ongame) and Microgaming network…
So it’s not that simple
Yes, Bwin (former Ongame) is the worst. I am not putting a larger deal up on my site with any skins from this network untill things change.
Affiliates are not allowed to promote rakeback so the skins are competing with their own affiliates in order to get players to sign up without an affiliate.
Microgaming is a bit better. They cannot contact a player regarding rakeback before he has signed up and played a real money hand. This way they are not competing with the affiliates but are actually creating better players for the affiliates ones the player starts getting better kick backs.
/Mike
PS: Everest should be quite good for a rev share affiliate. They don’t offer rakeback at all and they are putting up good numbers for us.
What is interesting about this thread, which I suppose is being read by aff managers, is that not one manager contacted me to assure me that players would not be stolen in their room and offer to monetize my traffic.
Not a single one.
On the other hand, I have been approached and asked to join rakeback….
Anybody that spent a lot of time promoting poker on revenue share over the last few years knows exactly what resulted from other affiliates stepping all over each other to offer rakeback. Their earnings went down drastically.
Money doesn’t disappear – it changes hands.
Here are some examples from my experience:
When I can stick Adsense on some little niche site and make more than what I get from significantly more targeted poker traffic – that is just wrong.
I made more monthly from my very first poker player at one program than what I could combined in the same time frame with all of my players there after two+ years of building a player base. That is insane. I’m assuming that first player ‘changed hands’ along with any other serious players I sent there since he just disappeared one day.
I made substantially more from one site (CPA – Poker Stars) than all of the other rev share/rakeback allowed sites even though I barely promoted the former after the first year and heavily promoted the latter. In fact, I haven’t promoted PS for almost two years and still make money from them. Given that is all based on old traffic and a CPA deal, I consider that a sign of a healthy program.
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I have a friend that runs a b&m company and when I would tell her my traffic numbers, source (search engine terms, etc) she would laugh at my commissions. She used to tell me that if I could get customers to her door under similar terms they could convert 70% of them. And they would be thrilled to hand someone a good sized % commission, especially when there are no up front marketing/sales costs to themselves. And when you consider what it costs just for a sales staff in a company it makes sense. In this one, their base salaries are probably about 10% of revenues and they get commission on top of that. This doesn’t factor any other marketing/advertising efforts into it either.
But really, I would have been happy just with even 5% commission from all of these programs if I knew what the playing field actually was. But it became a moving target. That was my biggest problem with this – it took a lot of my time, which then I thought was well worth it since the player would be mine for life and the biggest rewards would come later after building a good player base. This turned out not to be true. The more I worked and increased traffic the less I made.
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For the guy that said he was not going to promote poker – that’s probably the best choice. The only way I would even consider it now is with a big/established program with a CPA deal. It is also easy to tell if rev. share programs allow rakeback :wink-wink, regardless of what comes out of their mouth. Just watch their conversion and retention over 2-3 months and you’ll get your answer.
I hate when super old threads are bumped but that was a good post. What’s a b&m though?
@JackTen 155324 wrote:
What’s a b&m though?
“Brick and mortar” — a business with a physical store where customers can go and shop.
So f&p or somebody else, what is your oppinion : Is it good to promote poker rooms or it is better to promote only casinos ?
Both is great.
But if you are planning on just folding your hands and start crying if someone comes up with a good idea that makes your players play somewhere else in a few years then I would advise against venturing into this business – or any other business for that matter.
Be aware that the matter of direct player stealing (the RTR situation that casinolisten started this thread with) has nothing to do with giving the player a better offer at another site.
/Mike
