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Well i don’t blame party poker, they bought the players, from empire, just like a CPA deal, now the master affiliate tradal/empire/cd/ whatever they are should closed out the sold programs by paying the affiliates.
again, i’m owed nothing from empire, just the way it looks to me.
EllenIng wrote:As soon as I got that email, I emailed Hemant, our rep, and he sent me the new Empire trackers right away. I suggest anyone that hasn’t received their new Empire trackers to contact your rep, you should get them immediately.Also THRILLED that Party took over Empire!!!!But you just lost every player that you ever referred to Empire in the past. Party took these players and moved them to the “house” account — you will no longer receive any residual income from your past referrals to Empire.
I wouldn’t be happy about that.
We are absolutely livid about this. We are losing a lot of money every month because of this. :cuss:
Guys, this is only the beginning.
Last time I predicted a big problem I was right. After the second program renegged on the T&C’s we signed under, I warned that if we let it slide it would become the status quo. We let it go, and 5 more programs did the same, including large ones, and it took a lot of head butting and perseverance to get things back to normal.
I am now raising a big fat red flag again. This is a terrible precedent, and number 2 already.
We are heading for a year of consolidations, buy outs and take overs, I am absolutely positive. It is already happening all around us. Some programs are doing this the right way and mapping players over. Look at Casino Rewards and Cooks.
Some are stealing our player bases. Affiliate claims must be considered in the purchase negotiations. They were not in this case. They were not in Partnerpage’s case.
One year from now we could stand here stripped of the player bases we worked so hard to build up all these years. It is what every affiliate needs to make it – building up a player base. It is our security blanket, our only claim to the future.
Not only that, we were promised “life long” player mapping, not until people decide to merge and totally forget to include affiliate claims in their negotiations. Once again, affiliate contracts are nil and void and cannot be trusted.
There will be a lot more mergers, and we have to be smart and look out for ourselves. If we keep sending players to known thieves, we will suffer the same thing over and over. And all the other programs will follow suit since there is nothing negative that happens when you steal player bases.
We need to pay good attention here! This is our future!
I guess many affiliates in the further will prefer a high CPA for the poker players the send :dozing:
Good post, Dominique. I agree 100%.
If we do nothing about this, it will happen again and again.
Remember the retroactive T&Cs fiasco from last year? If we hadn’t taken action then, where do you think we would be today? I suspect a dozen other programs would have rewritten their T&Cs to suit their needs. Commissions would have been lowered to 5%, “lifetime” players would have been stolen — you name it. Thankfully that trainwreck was turned around.
This situation is similar — it sets an important precedent, and it is extremely important that we speak up about this now. If we don’t, we’ll all be screwed in one year. As Party grows, and as they acquire additional properties, you will lose more and more of your “lifetime” players as Party simply puts them into their “house” account.
Is that what you want?
I am going to blacklist PartyPartners because of this. I strongly urge other webmasters who care about this industry to do the same. If we can hurt Party’s bottom line, they won’t be able to buy additional properties. If they can’t buy anyone else, then they can’t steal any more of our lifetime referrals.
Please take some time to help spread the bad news on player forums, on your own blacklists, etc. Trust me, it does work.
But you just lost every player that you ever referred to Empire in the past. Party took these players and moved them to the “house” account — you will no longer receive any residual income from your past referrals to Empire.
I wouldn’t be happy about that.
Sorry, the reason I WAS happy that Party took over was that Empire wasn’t tracking for us properly at any time and I know Party is tracking correctly.
I didn’t realize we lost those players, when Intertops sold the poker room at least they gave us a chunk of money knowing those old players wouldn’t track anymore…I’m emailing Hemant now.
I keep reading people blaming party poker, it’s EMPIRE that screwed you. they were paid $3500 for the players that party poker now owns, make them pay you a commission.
I’m amazed that people can sit here and blame party poker for tradal screwing you. If i buy your car from you, i don’t have to drive the carpool to soccer for you! It’s my car i paid, you need to make new arragements for the carpool. if you want to boycott, boycott Empire/CPays/Tradal.
I make a ton of money with party poker, they’ve always been great to me (though i know smaller affiliates get the cold shoulder), so i don’t like to see this misdirected anger tarnish them. I’ve also worked with tradal (erez, sophie, yossie), especially the early years where they were my big paycheck, they’ve always been good to me and honest, so this is a shock.
It’s extremely important to prevent programs from violating their contractual agreements with us. BUT it’s even more important that in a situation like this that we identify who is in violation – Empire, not Party Gaming and force them to make good.
(
You can see it that way AmCan… however…
if you are renting an apartment in a block of flats, and the building gets sold.. the new owner HAS to honour the contracts of the tenants.. he may NOT simply kick them out..
Sorry actyper when I deleted the second post it removed your original one too. Please repost your comment.
Ah, but Peralis,
:fencing:
you are viewing the “player” as a tenant, i am viewing the “player” the Flat it itself – we buy or “build” the player, sell it to the affiliate program for 30% of profits generated by that property/player. When the affiliate program sells the flat, the new owner is responsible for tenant (party honors the account, answers the emails, etc), but our 30% is sitting in the cash for the property they sold.:beatup:
:banger:
but i still love you!
:drunk2:Empire/Tradal sold something they did not own.
Party knowingly bought stolen goods.
As far as the casino goes – I signed for it through global, they moved it to Tradal and mapped players over, and then they took it back and stole the players. My contract was with party all along on that one.
Your totally wrong there (i may eat these words later), Dom, the terms we all signed clearly say they own the player and their email and that we have no co-ownership, or co-registratoin rights. We’re like insurance agents, the customer is owned by the underwriter, we get our lifetime commission.
How are you feeling and are you coming to amsterdam?
I am feeling splendid and will be in Amsterdam with flying colors. Arriving a day early and leaving two days late – I plan to enjoy myself.
None of this matters a lick. Us being in inertia trying to figure out who is to blame and how the law goes is just a waste of time, since we will never sue.
The one fact that makes them both responsible is that they made a deal that did not take affiliate interests into consideration, and they screwed us.
Both of them did this together.
Regardless of how hostile they are to each other, they had to have been in agreement on this – forget affiliates, they don’t matter, they cannot defend themselves.
we get our lifetime commission.
Key word: “lifetime.” Party needs to continue honoring the contracts that were signed with Empire. Right?
Do we want to work with programs what screw over their affiliates? What has happened here is very “anti-affiliate” in nature, and it certainly shouldn’t be defended or supported in any way. PartyPartners has been treating their affiliates like crap for over a year now. Sure, some affiliates make decent money with them, but if you look at the big picture, the number of complaints, and this latest fiasco — is this the type of program that the industry needs? I don’t think so. Clearly this program only cares about their own bottom line. They no longer care about affiliates. If they did, wouldn’t they try to map over the players that were acquired from Empire? I think so. Instead, they point the finger at Empire and make it most inconvenient and confusing for everyone involved.
Is it right for Empire to sell our lifetime residual income without compensation? Is it right for Party to purchase something that doesn’t really belong to them? Maybe they can purchase the player database, but as you said in your post, “we get our lifetime commission.” So where is it going to come from now? Logic suggests that Party would be paying this in the future, since they are the new owners. It wouldn’t make much sense for Empire to continue paying it.
Without affiliates, PartyPartners wouldn’t even exist. Affiliates made Party what it is today, and this is how we are repaid??!!! By having our “lifetime” residual income stolen during a business transaction?!! UNBELIEVABLE! It’s a slap in the face! PartyPartners is no longer a “Partner” to anyone — they are a predator. They will purchase additional properties in the future, and they will steal your players again and again. Years of hard work and future income will be lost because of this unfriendly attitude.
