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Hi all,
I posted this down in RBs thread but will post it here too.
We MUST do more than just take down their links. We MUST set an example now; before others follow suit.
Here’s what I told them.
Hi folks from RB,
first, thank you for coming in and addressing these issues.
I cannot speak for everyone, but I think I can say the majority of us have not yet given up on you; and you’re coming in and keeping the communication lines open reinforces hope.
For myself, the only big problem I have with these changes is the first deposit thing.
I understand the need to adjust because of bonus offers, but a blanket statement such as “first deposit” is totally out of line. Its not sound thinking for either side and please let me explain why.
what aff in his/her right mind is going to chance sending players to someplace where if they did deposit say $10,000 the first time; that we’d see nothing for our efforts. What if they dropped that much the first deposit and lost; got pissed and never came back. Do you really think it is fair that the aff gets nothing for the $10k they just made you?
Nobody is going to risk that.
Which brings me to a point others have already brought up; and that being that you’re just trying to get rid of your affs so you don’t have to pay them.
If that is true, and you will be proving it to be, if you insist on keeping a couple of these new terms which are rediculous; you’re going to get much more than you bargained for; because its already in discussion that the people that made you; will not just take you off their sites; they will take on an aggressive campaign to warn players away from your casinos; and rightly so.
I beg the powers that be; to consider just how ugly this can all get if they insist on shitting on us.
We want to make you money. In the long run, we are your best bet by far. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you; and we won’t bite the hand that feeds us. That’s how it should be.
Please understand that we are willing to be reasonable and work with you in almost any way that isn’t a blatant slap in the face.
Nobody here wants a war. But I am not kidding when I say it could get real freaking ugly and it should be considered extremely carefully about the fact that the very same way your casinos gained the exposure and respectability they currently enjoy; can be undone in the same fashion and I shudder to think how much quicker that can happen when you add “pissed-off” as an incentive.
Please, keep communication open with us; let us make suggestions to help you reach the honorable goal that I think you are trying to obtain.
Please don’t turn this into a vendetta situation because nobody is going to come away a winner. And I can almost promise these affs are not going to just take down your links. they will take aggressive action which will result in literally tons of portals listing on their front page or someplace close – a warning list of your casinos to avoid or stop playing at.
we have little to lose and everything to gain by showing a united aggressive campaign to tell players to avoid or stop playing at their properties – IF they insist on keeping these unreasonable, unethical and in many cases; illegal changes to terms.
the Prof is completely right in keeping them in their forum, we MUST be able to communicate or else everybody is going to lose big time! Especially RB.
This isn’t about Referback.
This is about 5 programs breaking the law in order to cut our profit and make more themselves.
Referback is only the last one.
We have to try to do something about the crimes or there will be a legal precedent that it is ok in this industry to break contracts.
The problem is a lot bigger than Referback, Referback is only 1/5th of it.
Hey Dom,
I agree with you totally on this issue. There have been several of us in private talks with theses affiliate programs over the past few weeks. I am on vacation but have taken time to to get involved. This early fall I am going to make updates to my sights that speak louder than words. These programs will be fucked by their own actions of late. Casino Coins use to be my number two revenue maker, now they do not hardly exist on my sights.Ok guys lets watch the language and keep this professional and on topic.
The changes enacted by Referback are clearly unacceptable to all of us, lets not cloud the issue by dipping into too much verbal abuse and bitch slapping.
There are TONS of legitimate objections to the new Terms and Conditions lets focus on them and any proposed repairs by Referback or potential courses of action by affiliates.
I got a little excited there for a min, lol.But I will try. :drunk2:
You know, it takes a while to make the software changes necessary for this type of revision. This is not something that was thought up in the last 60 to 90 days. Just a thought.
Some days ago,
I registred as new affiliate at Referback, because I had faith in the list of CAP affiliation programs.Now, I really doubt. I plan to have my first casino portal opened end of this month and now frankly wonder if all this work is worth something…
If I had to start it again, I would prefer make better choices. That’s why I request a list on this site (and not in the forum !) with partner programs you should avoid.
Even if major members on this forum think it’s just the start of an affiliate tsunami, affiliation programs can’t live w/o our work. That’s why this list, even it should reach dozens of entries, should exist. And it’s also why online gambling is I think, a profitable business – even I’ve no experience – , that new or probe affiliation programs will probably replace the old ones.
All these problems remind me how greedy we all can be. All this reminds me just one thing, is that greedy people make big losers, just like in casinos.
Les arbres ne montent pas jusqu’au ciel.
H.
Hi all,
I accept that many of you are upset and confused about some of the additions to the terms and conditions. I use the word additions as there are no retroactive changes to the revised terms and conditions. Let me clarify the few points that I believe are still misunderstood by some affiliates.
Addressing the definition of an “Active Casino Customer”
Firstly attempting a purchase of more than $500 is not possible as this is the purchase limit at the credit card companies and the casinos. Large first purchases are rare for new gamblers, due to trust issues etc. As much as you and I would like all players to join the casino purely for its entertainment value, this does not happen, as new players are mostly joining for the signup bonus. The remaining small percentage of players that do not apply for the bonus, will probable make multiple smaller purchases, as found during an investigation into this issue.
Here is my reasoning as to how this can be beneficial to affiliates. Players receive an incentive for their first purchase and most cases the free bonus exceeds the purchase as with the $50 for $200 promotion. As per the old definition the affiliate has a balance of -$150.00, and as per the new definition the balance is still $0. If the player leaves the casino you have lost nothing if the player purchases again the balance will show the first and second purchase less the bonus. Now the player has value, as he/she is able to make multiple purchases.
Please note: We definitely DO NOT discount the 1st purchase, as you will receive full commission on all purchases that the player has made from the date that they opened the first casino account. This extends to any and all first purchases the player may have made at any casino in the group.Addressing the “Lapsed Customer” clause
If a player stops playing at all the casinos in the group for 6 consecutive months the player will be considered lapsed. This applies from the 1st of August 2005. The date will be included in the terms for clarification. This will not apply to players acquired prior to this date.
Taking into consideration all the retention as well as reactivation promotions, if a customer is INACTIVE for 6 MONTHS on the GROUP of casinos chances are he/she is really not interested in being a casino player.
I can understand that a webmaster would revisit a casino after 6 months, however would a player? This is 6 months without responding to any casino promotions. This does not apply to players that play every day or month.
The opportunity/positive here is that all affiliates are now able to re-acquire these lapsed players via their web sites and they will be linked to the affiliate that did the work. This applies to players that signed up directly with the casino as well. As it is many affiliates refer qualified gamblers that have not played in years and are already linked to an affiliate or the casino directly and thus lose out on the commission. A case of either or?
I think that all the other points raised have been clarified. As all of you know I am open to any questions or discussion in regards to the above or any questions you might have. Please include your aff id in a private mail if you have any questions relating to your own account.
Thank you
I can understand that a webmaster would revisit a casino after 6 months, however would a player?
YES SOME DO !
Wayne wrote:Addressing the “Lapsed Customer” clauseIf a player stops playing at all the casinos in the group for 6 consecutive months the player will be considered lapsed. This applies from the 1st of August 2005. The date will be included in the terms for clarification. This will not apply to players acquired prior to this date.
Well thats a positive anyway, even though this Term is enough in its own right to disuade me from promoting them from 1st august.
Incidentally, I hadn’t realised until today that both Fortune Affiliates AND Referback are owned by Carmen Media.
Incidentally, I hadn’t realised until today that both Fortune Affiliates AND Referback are owned by Carmen Media.
I just found that out myself this morning.
So NOW a program wants us to agree to having our player base scrapped – aint that the shiz! :Ohno:
I use the word additions as there are no retroactive changes
So youre saying you wont scrape old players that have lapsed but new ones from this date forward will be scraped? You might be smoking crack but we arent and anyone that believes that is!
Additionally, what about the new 20% share? Will that be applied on only new players or everyone in my account(s)?
I for one have already removed their links! If they change things I will put them back up, but until I am happy with changes I am not going to give them one more player!
Incidentally, I hadn’t realised until today that both Fortune Affiliates AND Referback are owned by Carmen Media.
Ahhh you might want to continue your research to Microgaming and Proc-Cyber too guys…..
Well, that explains a lot right there! :tongue:
Wayne wrote:Hi all,I accept that many of you are upset and confused about some of the additions to the terms and conditions. I use the word additions as there are no retroactive changes to the revised terms and conditions. Let me clarify the few points that I believe are still misunderstood by some affiliates.
Addressing the definition of an “Active Casino Customer”
Firstly attempting a purchase of more than $500 is not possible as this is the purchase limit at the credit card companies and the casinos. Large first purchases are rare for new gamblers, due to trust issues etc. As much as you and I would like all players to join the casino purely for its entertainment value, this does not happen, as new players are mostly joining for the signup bonus. The remaining small percentage of players that do not apply for the bonus, will probable make multiple smaller purchases, as found during an investigation into this issue.
Here is my reasoning as to how this can be beneficial to affiliates. Players receive an incentive for their first purchase and most cases the free bonus exceeds the purchase as with the $50 for $200 promotion. As per the old definition the affiliate has a balance of -$150.00, and as per the new definition the balance is still $0. If the player leaves the casino you have lost nothing if the player purchases again the balance will show the first and second purchase less the bonus. Now the player has value, as he/she is able to make multiple purchases.
Please note: We definitely DO NOT discount the 1st purchase, as you will receive full commission on all purchases that the player has made from the date that they opened the first casino account. This extends to any and all first purchases the player may have made at any casino in the group.
If a bonus taker loses the bonus and deposit, your firm wins and keeps the aff monies. You write the above like there is nothing in it for your firm. If there were nothing in it for the firm, they would,nt bother with the new rule. That tells me the bonus player losers outweigh the winners.Addressing the “Lapsed Customer” clause
If a player stops playing at all the casinos in the group for 6 consecutive months the player will be considered lapsed. This applies from the 1st of August 2005. The date will be included in the terms for clarification. This will not apply to players acquired prior to this date.
Taking into consideration all the retention as well as reactivation promotions, if a customer is INACTIVE for 6 MONTHS on the GROUP of casinos chances are he/she is really not interested in being a casino player.
I can understand that a webmaster would revisit a casino after 6 months, however would a player? This is 6 months without responding to any casino promotions. This does not apply to players that play every day or month.
The opportunity/positive here is that all affiliates are now able to re-acquire these lapsed players via their web sites and they will be linked to the affiliate that did the work. This applies to players that signed up directly with the casino as well. As it is many affiliates refer qualified gamblers that have not played in years and are already linked to an affiliate or the casino directly and thus lose out on the commission. A case of either or?
I think that all the other points raised have been clarified. As all of you know I am open to any questions or discussion in regards to the above or any questions you might have. Please include your aff id in a private mail if you have any questions relating to your own account.
Thank you
You write the above again like there is nothing in it for your firm. Players who return after a 6 month gap to a casino downloaded on their poota, hooked up with an account are free lunch for your firm. If the punter doesnt click a new banner and just use the icon on the desktop, you keep the affs part. Have it right. There is nothing in it for the aff who found you the player.
Trying to pull the wool over my eyes with this kind of chatter is as silly rb closing my account without notice or even telling me, because of my “perceived” tone in an email.
I do not like the tone of these new terms or the attempt to portray them as “beneficial” to the affs.
