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LOL Sue… I’m glad you’ve joined the three other readers of the newsletter
Seriously – the newsletter has always been my sounding board – I always write what is in my mind at the moment, there is never anything pre-planned in the Thoughts of the Week.
I know we have mostly players who subscribe – but I also know that we have a lot of industry watchers and casino operations who subscribe because they never know when they’re going to be my next target.
This week, there was nothing exciting on the player side of things to talk about (unless they want to hear about my wins) – so I took to the issue most important to me at the time.
I know that most of the offending programs have multiple subscriptions as well – because they have been targeted in the past
Except this time – I have asked for a favor from my players to please stop playing at these casinos – something I have never done before – but one which I hope will send a warning shot across their bows, even though I don’t have that many actual players at their operations.
What scares them most is that they do NOT know who subscribes to my newsletter – yet they know that I am often approached to speak at conferences, and often get interviewed for publications. This is their biggest worry – not the minute financial impact that I will have on them.
If you want to put some strain on their profits, then it’s going to take many, many more of us taking firm action.
You’re up to five readers now Spear. I just subscribed.
:Partier:Wow. a 60% increase in subscriptions!
I wonder if my income will increase proportionately…
Thanks Ken
BB I love ya too, but as I said that was figures supplied to me by a webmaster with a 10,000 player history recorded over the last half decade.
Agree with Dean on this one BB1, anytime you land a whale and they lose all their dough on the first deposit … a larger marjority will move on to the next casino.
Given that in a casino, the majority of people LOSE, it is easy to see why Dean is probably right on this one.
If they win, naturally, they stick around… but that’s a big IF.
my 2cents
ps: edited to add – my conclusions probably aren’t scientific… that’s just been the case with me.
“my conclusions probably aren’t scientific”
And they certainly dont need to be. Its not rocket science to recognize a screw job…
In the civilized world where I grew up you honored set agreements. If you decide to change terms later it was going FORWARD – not backward. If Referback wants a unattractive program for new webmasters that is really not my concern. IT IS my concern when they are in default of agreements made with me previous to those changes.
I believe the term is called “grandfathering”….
It is my sincere hope that this is simply a misunderstanding and Referback is going to clarify this as being enforced only upon new affiliates…. :dajudge:
Didnt “wayne” say they would be back with more information?
In between all this cussing and discussing, there is a difninitve lack of response from Referback or any other offending program. There are no acknowldedgements of concerns, there are no communications that they are working on it or willing to work on it. No responses to legitimate questions. All there is here is a deafening silence.
Sue
In the civilized world where I grew up you honored set agreements. If you decide to change terms later it was going FORWARD – not backward. If Referback wants a unattractive program for new webmasters that is really not my concern. IT IS my concern when they are in default of agreements made with me previous to those changes.
No Kidding… Including hand shakes
There are no acknowldedgements of concerns, there are no communications that they are working on it or willing to work on it. No responses to legitimate questions.
This should tell you something.. I have already moved on to greener pastures. I don’t think referback has any intentions of working on this with us. Personally I could never trust a program like this again, that came up with such outrages terms and condition changes.
I have been a mamber here for a couple of years now. I am generally not someone who posts much – I’m lazy! And I’d rather be quiet and only speak when I feel its important. This is a great message board and even though I haven’t met a single one of you, I highly respect the individuals who have pulled this together. :wavey:
I have not promoted Referback. About two years ago we applied and were declined. A year later we started getting obviously good rankings and they were breaking down the door. We told them to take a hike. If we weren’t good enough earlier, why then suddenly? They offered a good deal, but we stuck to our principles.
Anyways, to get to the point. First of all, the lack of response, and the complete ignorance in the response to date astounds me. Imagine this happened in the “real” bricks and mortar world! There would be outcry! Now let me qualify, this kind of thing does happen. The financial services industry is notorious for it (I know, it made me too old too fast). However, their communication would be a tad better than we’ve seen here. I digress again.
Having mulled over this for a week now, I have grave concerns. Taking down banners is one thing, but no solution. I GUARANTEE YOU NOW that in a couple of months time, Referback will handpick a couple of you guys and offer better deals, with a precondition that you will keep quiet about it. It’s not rocket science. Every management meeting they have I promise you they say something like “shit, look what we’ve paid affiliates this month, it’s crazy, we must do something about it”. Then a big kahuna walks into a meeting one day and says “We need to cut costs, where do we start?”. The rest is history, and in this case in our pockets.
I feel that this thing needs a more cencerted effort than doing a three page level down blacklist and dumping banners. There is one reality: How can we guarantee our players consistent terms with these casinos, if we have experienced the opposite. I for one take this very seriously, and take it personal if a player gets into trouble with a casino where I sent her.
So I guess what I am saying is we need to actually be more assertive. It is clear that these people are not here to negotiate. You need to come to the table to do that and the room is empty.
I look forward to a beer (or six) in Vegas to discuss this further. There is no overnight solution. All I am saying is that if we do not put our foot down now, other programs will start saying hey, these guys actually roll over easily. Let’s roll ’em.
Phew. Thoughts?
Nice post, Justred.
The question is, will we have left it too late by the time we get to Vegas?
krystall2 wrote:I don’t think referback has any intentions of working on this with us. Personally I could never trust a program like this again, that came up with such outrages terms and condition changes.Do you understand that by continuing to send players to the referback properties that you may in fact be “legally” implying that you fully accept their terms? I understand for the last week you and others have been saying your moving on or removing links, but your sites (assuming those in your signatures are your sites) are still featuring numerous referback properties.
The last several days have been very quiet on this forum and on others. Are affiliates accepting these terms without a bigger fight? I too agree with justred, the time to put our foots down is quickly getting away from us, actions speak louder than words; act now before it is too late! If we wait until Vegas to address this further our coffins will be sealed!
If referback is no longer open to communication maybe it is finally time to start nailing some spikes into their coffin!
axl wrote:Do you understand that by continuing to send players to the referback properties that you may in fact be “legally” implying that you fully accept their terms? I understand for the last week you and others have been saying your moving on or removing links, but your sites (assuming those in your signatures are your sites) are still featuring numerous referback properties.The last several days have been very quiet on this forum and on others. Are affiliates accepting these terms without a bigger fight? I too agree with justred, the time to put our foots down is quickly getting away from us, actions speak louder than words; act now before it is too late! If we wait until Vegas to address this further our coffins will be sealed!
If referback is no longer open to communication maybe it is finally time to start nailing some spikes into their coffin!
Exactly, I agree 100% with this post…..For some people the link replacement is a lot more difficult than others, depending on site size and setup, and available time.
I will be lucky if mine are all gone by coming Monday.
While I personally have no problems removing all the links to Fortune, Vegas Partners, Partnerlogic and Referback, I know many others are scared to do it because they fear they will lose their income.
If you can make money with one program, you can make it with another. In a short period of time things will just shift. Also, the reason to drop these programs is because you will not make the money you have grown used to. If your concern is financial, dropping them is the best course of action.
There are also people with contracts that have to be filled or they,too, are in breach.
I don’t think pressuring people is the way to go – we were there years ago when those programs covered up our sites with scumware. Pressure doesn’t work. I personally resent it now, too. Back then I was the one applying it…
I think it would be a lot more productive to list replacement programs – look through their T&Cs and pick ones that have no nasty clauses.
Showing how the financial deals with other, comparable programs are so much better will help too.
It’s a lot easier to reinstate a program than it is to pull it – to reinstate you simply add it. Pulling means finding suitable replacement and exchanging listings one by one.
Ok, back outside, one of the remodeling guys is calling me.
My links to Vegas Partner and Fortune Affiliates have been gone for weeks now; my Referback links bit the dust early last week; and I never promoted Partner Logic.
Many of us have created blacklists to help spread the word about these dishonest affiliate programs, and many others are planning to do the same. Also, there are ongoing discussions about taking legal action against the offending parties.
This isn’t over, not by a long shot. Damage has already been done to RB and the others, and it is only going to get worse for them, not better.
Referback will not be coming here today to post any responses, because the country where Referback is located has a national holiday today.
For some people the link replacement is a lot more difficult than others, depending on site size and setup, and available time.
This is true. Database-driven sites can be updated in seconds; plain HTML sites require a lot more time.
If your concern is financial, dropping them is the best course of action.
I agree. You might continue to make money for a while…. but for how long? These groups have proven that they can’t keep their promises. Why risk being screwed a second time, when you could switch to an equally profitable program with a clean reputation? I would rather earn 25% for 10 years instead of 30% for only 2 years (or however long it is until they announce the next screw job).
well Dom its not actually a “shift” because what should have happened is you should be making money from all directions you headed, not have it shift to coming in from a different direction.
if you get my drift. but that also proves your point. and explains the attitude I’ve decided to take – which is that I’m cutting my losses now as opposed to cutting them later when they’re bigger.
sometimes you just gotta bite the freaking bullet. *but I ain’t gonna do it quietly nor allow it to go away quickly.
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Bernie.
You of all people … I’m surprised.
think about it a second. most of those numbers in the 75% are bonus chasers and window shoppers. by the time the sponsor gets thru “taxing” you on the bonus situation, you really don’t stand to make a lot on that first deposit anyway …. when compared to what you make off a regular-playing player in that 25% number
the only people IMHO that stand to really lose on the first deposit thing, (although I’m against it cause it just ain’t right) are those that target that nasty four letter word …. yep, you guessed it. “free”!
IMHO you get what you ask for on the net. If you ask for someone seeking something free. that’s what you’re gonna get. And then you have your surfers who are willing to pay something to get something for free; which is where there is room for profit to be made. But seriously, you gotta do some very serious numbers to play that game.
at almost every program I’ve got literally 100s of accounts which are awol / mia to every one good player’s account. And I DON’T target anything “free”. Ever.
heck I remember one of the first things the Prof told me… way back when … was that I’d likely make the majority of my income off of 4 or 5 players.
he was once again…. right. I’m sure there are exceptions, but I stand by my statement at least in my case, and I say it from the point of knowing its true.
that said; is that what your stats tell you? that you make 75% of your income off people that only deposit once? (*if you don’t mind my asking)
