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I feel like I’m being stoned to death here…. HALP!
I don’t think comparing the $15 to a buffet is the right analogy but you are right on some points for sure. No restaurant is going to give you free food and if they do it’s usually with a purchase (like a match bonus at a casino). They will give you free samples and it’s to taste the food/restaurant or in this case the casino. It’s $15 which you can turn into $150 which I think is more than a fair deal considering if you do win you can cashout and never had to deposit but still walk away with $150 from nothing. The only complaints from players I have had about these bonuses are when they play blackjack and double it up to $150 and just meet the wagering, cashout and are upset that BJ was a restricted game. Most abusers will read the terms and will see if they can double it on slots since it’s better than nothing.
I think trying to compare online to land based casinos is also a tough one. I have yet to see a landbased casino offer you any free credits when you walk in the door or any depositing / match bonuses. They first want you to lose money while they track your play then they can put you into a reward category such as a comped room or meal. Now that they have your contact info they can now target you properly with the right offers. Also their slots are 80% return and their operating expenses are huge. If I were a land based casino would I offer a no deposit bonus and match bonus I don’t know. I’d have to first look how the market is and maybe it would be a good experiment.
Now Dom brought up another debatable point and I’ll try to answer that as best as I can (this thread is growing legs).
First casinocoins (vegas tech) have been around for 10 years and that’s a lot of experience to try to compete against. They are one of the best performing groups and it’s tough to compare all/any Rivals with them. Up until about a week or 2 ago we have our processing upgraded and it wasn’t until months ago that we had progressives. I would say in Nov we hit our groove and that took a little over 2 years to achieve. We are also in the process of launching tournaments and our player values are going to climb when that does happen. I don’t now if the $15 is going to turn away these great players or drop our playing values. Also not all Rivals have used the ND bonus but the results with them have been favorable and I have seen ones without it eventually switch and come over to the dark side MUAHAHAHAHA. The NDs do attract more freebie hunters but I believe the expense has been worth it for the extra traffic I do get. I believe I got some players through the door that otherwise would have never made it.
I can of course create a landing page that only shows the signup bonus with no ND listed and also not credit the player for that. So maybe I can make that part of my experiment in the near future.
Overall maybe time will tell what the best system is but I am still learning and sometimes* listening
I can’t compare thisisvegas to casinocoins (yet) but I can compare it with other Rivals and with my own experiment of having the ND and not having it. Most of my VIPs have started off with the ND then made it to the signup bonus. On my end I find the pros far outweighed the cons. The ND signup for some players gives me a chance to send them a deposit offer in the future from players that otherwise would have never signed up. Some will be happy with the $15 free and whether they win or lose might feel obligated to make a deposit. Of course this doesn’t happen 100% of the time but it’s the reason why the Free Sample will always be around and never disappear. It’s already been proven the buying rates of a product in a grocery store with a free sample. I agree not all sites will use them and not all of them need them. For English Harbour they do offer a free slot tournament entry so there is a freebie there. Most MGs offer Freeplay or ND signup bonuses and I hear the freeplay perform very well even though I think the terms associated with them are messy.ok where’s my HALP!
Lol, you shouldn’t be taking this thread personal, it’s just a discussion.
What I meant to communicate is that a freebie offer CREATES bonus hunters. The newbie player testing the casino is looking for some sort of challenge, and beating the wagering requirements IS a challenge. Soon the same innocent player will look for more challenges – i.e. more freebies.
This is not an evil person who came to rob the casino, this is an innocent player who found something that adds a little ****e to the play.
People like goals they can achieve, and cashing out a bonus is such a goal.
Granted, there are players who are totally oblivious to the wagering requirements and thus don’t see a challenge in beating them, these then fall under the categories of feeling cheated when they can’t cash out what they thought they won, or who just redeposit anyway after playing the free money away.
That said, freebies are a proven method for building a playerbase for a new casino. No argument there either. You almost have to offer them to get established. You need traffic.
Later in the game they become more of a choice. Bodog casino offers almost no bonuses at all and does fine for themselves. Gambling Wages are the opposite end of the spectrum, they do well for themselves also.
Anyway, I wasn’t really criticizing the bonus systems as introductory offers. I was trying to point out that there should be other ways to provide a challenge for people.
Even though in my observation freebies do make bonus hunters out of a certain percentage of new, innocent players, they are here to stay.
Personally, I don’t like offering them but have little alternative these days. G&C has been pretty free of bonus hunters over the years, sending fewer players with much higher value instead. I like it that way, no one complains and everybody is happy. :hattip:
Upcoming tournies are good news. They provide plenty of challenge and will do well for you. Unless they are too short, they need to last one or more days.
Lol, the word s-p-i-c-e got edited out. :3eyes:
Well I certainly am trying my best not to take any of this personal but it feels like I’m defending the term or bonus that I created but certainly did not invent. I just want some other AMs to chime in here with their experience. Some people seem mad at some of the terms but all I can say is don’t hate the player, hate the game!
But since you did point it out I think were finally opening up the discussion a little better and feel I can breathe. Without a doubt I agree that some players who get the $15 free might be inclined to think what else can they get for free without having to deposit. By no means do I feel it’s the terms and conditions that can turn a player into a freebie hunter, rather it’s having the free sample available at so many places. The online casino biz is very competitive and while everyone is swimming I’m just trying to not create any waves in my motor boat
I think the better analogy there would be having a free food sample at the super market every day provided by a different supplier, you might get some players who come in only to take the free samples and leave but not all players will do this and sales will still be up. Eventually those freebies will be up and if they want to eat then got to pay and they know where to go.So where is the happy medium? I don’t know, I only know things from my experience and I would prefer to not have these bonuses there in the first place but I’m competing with land based casinos and with other online casinos. I think for any new casino they need traffic and most will want as much as they can get. I do know of a few casinos that give out hardly anything but they prefer to reward players after the fact rather than having to provide the incentives up front. I could have emulated say Bodog’s model but they already had a large player database so no need to offer a no deposit chip (yet I just went onto their site and it says get $25 FREE* of course you have to deposit $50). From my experience I have had to offer a little more to be competitive and to get attention from the players.
That being said I have a bit of homework to do. I think growing thisisvegas to what it is now, my no deposit signup bonuses helped a lot. The before and after stats were not a huge difference but I will save this discussion as an experiment for the near future and will report back what I find.
I got my start in this industry because of the “no deposit” bonus, as both a player and an affiliate. I am still here four years later because of the “no deposit” bonus and I expect to be here in ten years thanks to the “no deposit” bonus.
I don’t think a lot of affiliates realize just how valuable the “no deposit” bonus really is. I started gambling online because I had heard about the “no deposit” bonuses that online casinos were offering. Had I not heard about these, I am not sure I would have ever started gambling online.
The “no deposit” bonus is a great starting point for new online gamblers. It brings people in and let’s them try things out without risking anything. It allows them to become comfortable and familiar with online casinos, poker rooms, bingo halls, and sportsbooks until they are ready to become real money players. I can’t imagine how scary the process would be if every new player had to make a deposit before they could ever get a feel for what they were getting into.
There are a few very large affiliates (and many smaller ones) that have sites dedicated to the “no deposit’ bonus because they understand the value of these types of bonuses. Like it or not, I believe these affiliates also have a big impact on all of the other affiliates out there. These affiliates bring the new players into the game, and once these players have some experience and are seeking more specific information/education, they move on to the affiliate websites that are more dedicated to specific information. We would all be worse off if we didn’t have “no deposit” bonuses.
I also firmly believe that all “bonus hunters” as many people call them ARE or WILL be at some point in time REAL money players. If you (as a player) are using a “no deposit” bonus, you are a gambler, and in my experience no gambler wants to be limited to the amount of money they can win. At some point in the so called “bonus hunting” phase, a gambler isn’t going to be happy with reaching a difficult playthrough requirement only to be able to cashout a minimum amount. Gamblers gamble because they want the opportunity to win a large sum of money. I believe for this reason that having a maximum cashout on a “no deposit” bonus is a good idea. It encourages and creates real money players in the long run.
This brings us into the terms and conditions of these bonuses. In Rival’s case, they have the BEST system in place out of any software I have tried to alert their players of their terms and conditions for each bonus. Their terms are listed right in the cashier on the same exact page where you would go to claim a bonus. It doesn’t really get much better than that. It definitely beats having your terms buried deep into a website.
There is little deception in having a maximum cashout in my opinion. In the case of a Rival bonus, the terms are right there in front of you as you claim the bonus. If any deception does exist for “no deposit” bonuses in general, you can bet that same deception applies to “deposit bonuses” as well.
I think as we all become more experienced (casinos, affiliates, and players alike) we will see fewer problems with players and bonus terms. I think affiliates are doing a better job of making their players aware of the terms and I think players are generally more educated and know that it’s a good idea to read the terms before accepting or using any bonus.
I hope the “no deposit” bonus is here to stay because we would all be worse off without it!
I was actually going to point out your site but I feel like I’m writing too much. This has been a tough convo for me but it’s a good industry discussion.
It’s a great discussion and I hope more people jump in.
@nodepositneeded 192605 wrote:
I got my start in this industry because of the “no deposit” bonus, as both a player and an affiliate. I am still here four years later because of the “no deposit” bonus and I expect to be here in ten years thanks to the “no deposit” bonus.
DITTO! I along with others got freebies and turned in to loyal depositors. My key words was based on those words to attrace players that like ND bonuses for years and I’ve managed to support myselft very well off the bonus hunters. :hattip:
Hey John,
Not to worry my friend help is here and have your back! LOL :roflmao:
Without having read this thread (I will later) other than the last page, my view is that everyone is responsible to read and understand the rules. If it does not work for you then don’t do it.
@nodepositneeded 192605 wrote:
I got my start in this industry because of the “no deposit” bonus, as both a player and an affiliate. I am still here four years later because of the “no deposit” bonus and I expect to be here in ten years thanks to the “no deposit” bonus.
I don’t think a lot of affiliates realize just how valuable the “no deposit” bonus really is. I started gambling online because I had heard about the “no deposit” bonuses that online casinos were offering. Had I not heard about these, I am not sure I would have ever started gambling online.
The “no deposit” bonus is a great starting point for new online gamblers. It brings people in and let’s them try things out without risking anything. It allows them to become comfortable and familiar with online casinos, poker rooms, bingo halls, and sportsbooks until they are ready to become real money players. I can’t imagine how scary the process would be if every new player had to make a deposit before they could ever get a feel for what they were getting into.
There are a few very large affiliates (and many smaller ones) that have sites dedicated to the “no deposit’ bonus because they understand the value of these types of bonuses. Like it or not, I believe these affiliates also have a big impact on all of the other affiliates out there. These affiliates bring the new players into the game, and once these players have some experience and are seeking more specific information/education, they move on to the affiliate websites that are more dedicated to specific information. We would all be worse off if we didn’t have “no deposit” bonuses.
I also firmly believe that all “bonus hunters” as many people call them ARE or WILL be at some point in time REAL money players. If you (as a player) are using a “no deposit” bonus, you are a gambler, and in my experience no gambler wants to be limited to the amount of money they can win. At some point in the so called “bonus hunting” phase, a gambler isn’t going to be happy with reaching a difficult playthrough requirement only to be able to cashout a minimum amount. Gamblers gamble because they want the opportunity to win a large sum of money. I believe for this reason that having a maximum cashout on a “no deposit” bonus is a good idea. It encourages and creates real money players in the long run.
This brings us into the terms and conditions of these bonuses. In Rival’s case, they have the BEST system in place out of any software I have tried to alert their players of their terms and conditions for each bonus. Their terms are listed right in the cashier on the same exact page where you would go to claim a bonus. It doesn’t really get much better than that. It definitely beats having your terms buried deep into a website.
There is little deception in having a maximum cashout in my opinion. In the case of a Rival bonus, the terms are right there in front of you as you claim the bonus. If any deception does exist for “no deposit” bonuses in general, you can bet that same deception applies to “deposit bonuses” as well.
I think as we all become more experienced (casinos, affiliates, and players alike) we will see fewer problems with players and bonus terms. I think affiliates are doing a better job of making their players aware of the terms and I think players are generally more educated and know that it’s a good idea to read the terms before accepting or using any bonus.
I hope the “no deposit” bonus is here to stay because we would all be worse off without it!
I was an affiliate first, but I did move from that to trying things out using match bonuses. (No freebies back then) Back then, there were no wagering requirements and I would chisel away at Blackjack – the bonus gave me a small edge over the house and I was making a little money that way. It got extremely boring after a while and I still don’t like playing BJ anymore.
I agree that rival has the best presentation of bonuses, with the terms right there in the cashier.
I don’t think that most bonus hunters are just keen to win big or get something for free. Like I said before, they see a challenge in meeting the requirement and it adds more excitement to the games.
I also said I didn’t think the freebie will go away or should, I just would like to have other types of challenges, tournies being one of them.
I agree that free bonuses can and have helped get players in to sample and then get them depositing but I am still trying to figure out now if this has changed over the last few months since all the crazy stuff in our industry has gone on. I see casinos doing different things like free spins, free tourneys etc to get players in to play and it does seem to work as well. The biggest obstacle I think is education to the players on how to read terms, how to make deposits and how to withdraw. I also think that the casino needs to train the support staff to be more friendly towards the “new” players in the casinos as well, some just don’t understand the way of things when it comes to online gambling and I often see players being treated badly by support staff.
Anyway great topic:hattip:
I have yet to see a landbased casino offer you any free credits when you walk in the door or any depositing / match bonuses.
Not true anymore. I guess many of the newer slots are bonus ready. I went in nov after not going since the beginning of the year and they gave me a $10 bonus with the comp card. Then in the mail I received two $45 free bonuses if I went during a certain week. It just said you couldn’t cash out the bonus. They even give you your own personal website now.
I think in these tougher economic times the casinos are getting creative.
To get back on topic I didn’t know the most that could be won on the $15 was a $150 so I guess I’ll add that info to my Rival page. The players that know about it upfront and still want to play are the quality players I’m seeking anyway.
Yes, they do give retention bonuses and preload them on your card. With some land casinos, if you pay attention you see some type of marking on the slot machines, and these will be the ones you can play your free money on. The size of the bonus depends on your player loyalty status, it can be hundreds for average players and even thousands of dollars for high rollers. The marked machines are the majority of the machines. Some of the bonuses have a restriction – you can pick what machine you like, but then you have to stick with that particular machine. You have to play the bonus through once, and the machine keeps track for you. Push a button and it displays where you are. What you have left after one playthrough is yours.
I once got a $200 preloaded bonus at the Palazzo and walked away with $300 actual cash.
The lower bonuses are given if you fall into a certain player category, the higher ones are given on an individual basis and also depend on frequency of patronage.
And you have bonus hunters – people who have player cards everywhere and go around playing a bit of money at every one to collect comps. The catch is here that you don’t end up getting larger bonuses that way since you cannot stay at that many hotels on one trip.
I once had a lengthy conversation with a host and he was complaining bitterly about gving comped rooms to players that showed some promise on their first stay. They would claim the free rooms but not play much at his casino but go next door and who knows where and play there. Same problem we see online.
I don’t know as much about the initial freebies – I know one place I was playing some, first stay, and a lady came up, called me by name, and said I had a $10 freebie on my card and handed me a $20 restaurant coupon.
Landbased casino comps are actually quite high, free rooms even for players who just drop a few hundred, plus free food coupons and small cash bonuses.
The host explained that they have to keep the casino full, and if it doesn’t fill up on it’s own they have to bring people in on comps to fill the casino space. So in bad times (like right now, Vegas is suffering) comps shoot through the roof. An empty casino is no fun and will die.
With regards to any banned games, it would seem preferable if this is made completely clear upfront when taking a bonus – not buried in the T+Cs.
It would be even better if the casino software had the ability to disable these games when playing under a bonus, or pop up a notice that the bonus would be lost.Genuine new players are just going to feel cheated if denied a cashout because they tried the blackjack – especially if they aren’t trying to double up a few times.
Plenty of ‘regular’ people just don’t have the time or patience to read the small print.
And as mentioned, the real bonus abusers are already aware of the restricted games.@ScottB 192763 wrote:
Plenty of ‘regular’ people just don’t have the time or patience to read the small print.
And as mentioned, the real bonus abusers are already aware of the restricted games.If my money is involved then I do read the small print as I’ve been burned both offline and online to know better to NOT read the rules.
IMO ignorance is no excuse both legally or in real life.
Well the fact is people don’t read the small print it don’t mean they are ignorant maybe just busy and there is a study done that most Americans don’t bother to read fine print any hoot players just need to be reminded now and then to read the terms and that is what we do on our forum.
