- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
True – but I dont think you can call it monopoly when there is more than one company – there will be more than one online casino – but all of them will be owned only by US land based casinos.
We ALREADY have this, for example, online betting on horses, which continues to develop by the way:
http://www.ogpaper.com/news/news-0228.htmlWhich is the ground on which Antigua filed the complaint in the first place, and despite some encouraging reports, US Trade Dept does not seem moved at all.
If this happens, and US has to explain the law to WTO (which I really dont see happening), but they can justfy it by saying that this is the only way they can ensure that the regulations are followed by the companies, and that any foreign company should feel welcome to come over and open a land based casino first (another thing that wont happen).
Free trade has been recognized only when it benefits big Amrican companies.
There is a hope though, if the above scenario happens, and that’s the Christian part of the government – which may ban any TV and other offline media commercials about online gambling, on the count that it will demoralize the society. And then – affiliates will again become a good provider of online casino traffic.
As far as General Motors – sure they would love to get help to get back on their feet, but loosing 200,000 jobs in Alabama alone would create enough outrage. Plus, because of that trade deficit, the US makes the rules in the world economy, for as long as Americans could be able to afford to buy stuff.
Surely a topic for another discussion, but do you remember the past, when most people could afford to NOT shop at Walmart…:bored:There is a hope though, if the above scenario happens, and that’s the Christian part of the government – which may ban any TV and other offline media commercials about online gambling, on the count that it will demoralize the society. And then – affiliates will again become a good provider of online casino traffic.
Excellent point S: I never thought of that. Very likely could happen. Just look at liquor and say no more.
Now that said: I do see liquor ads on cable all the time. They’re very careful how they approach the subject but they advertise.
great point and the first point I’ve heard in this arguement to really give me hope on the subject.
I have an issue with the comparison terms used in many pages of this thread.
Illegal, semi-legal, totally illegal, grey area… no one knows quite where they stand.
I think you should all turn yourselves in to your respective legal authorities, hire myself and my team of extraordinarily expensive lawyers to get yourselves, well, out of the pooh pile you now find yourself encumbered in!
Unless you have 200k in loose change, don’t bother applying!
We are not talking about the legal situation with the affiliates, but with the online casinos.
Pay attention :shakebutt
Quote:Pay attentionI try mate, really I do. Sometimes you are a bit like a bedtime story and I just nod off. So, just give me a kick now and then ay?
I started to post this in Poker Room’s forum but then remembered this thread. Before I get to it I’d like to say that I think it only takes two companies competing in the online space to make an affiliate program viable. Maybe only one if that one doesn’t own most of natural search. Time will tell.
But let’s look at the alternative, which we are living right now. The illegal business model gets us this:
– a mish mash of programs – some not taking any US players, some taking ones from certain US states, and few/couple taking US players with no restrictions.
– the above is a constantly changing cluster&*&* where, by the time you integrate a program into your site(s) and start to generate revenue, the odds are that A) they will stop accepting the majority of your players
they will stop paying you.– the payment processors are following suit and for the cherry on top, if you have money in their accounts already they can and will keep it at will.
– a lot of the programs act like paying by paper check is some new technology that can’t be done.
– some of the programs that are willing to do the paper check route feel free to get around to it when they gd please now. For example, it is becoming the norm for UB to take two months to pay now. I guess we are suppose to feel fortunate that we are getting paid at all.
This “industry” is a joke. Contingency plans should have been worked out years ago for a scenario such as this. Yes, let’s wait until some people get arrested before we decide what to do – great plan there. The truth is the majority of them are basically quick buck artists and when they think the party is over will take a swipe at whatever money is still floating around because there is no recourse for either affiliates or players. In this respect, Party Poker has been a beacon of light as far as doing the right thing. Never thought I’d be saying something nice about them but facts are facts.
So… there is no way that a regulated industry can be worse than the current set up (no pun intended there). Only a sucker would invest time and/or money in this space now. All of these roadblocks, and the affiliate is the only one at risk legally. Imo, it is only viably profitable if you are thinking long haul for if/when the day comes when players can play unrestricted again. The day I see Paypal as an option for transferring funds regarding online gaming is the day I know that you can make a legit income from it again.
The negatives I listed are mainly in reference to US affiliates. But what is even worse is the effect on US players – the majority of the market. There are many people out there who are either still on the fence or it took a long time before they would trust their money online. Good luck getting them back. At this point, they may only try again when they see a known name with a US seal of approval.
Another note – since the payment processor debacle has begun, this will now have a negative effect on non US affiliates as well. At first, I’m sure it (DOJ hammer) seemed like a gift by removing the competition, but now it is having the effect of removing paying customers.
I would love to see this legal and regulated. Most of the programs that people are worried about not being able to do business here (US) are proving themselves not worthy anyhow. I will bet that when all is said and done, there will be less than a handful that I would ever trust again to do business with.
As far as possible future commission scenarios – I always assumed most of these programs were “offering” 30% +/- in commission but in effect paying only about 10% anyway. Yeah, I think there is mucho stealing of players/commission but accepted it as part of the deal. So if in the future Harrah’s etc. wants to only offer 5-10% commission, my guess is I will not only make just as much as before but probably more since A) there will no longer be restrictions on advertising,
the trust factor will blow the market open as far as increasing the player base, & C) there may actually be transparency & accountability when it comes to your stats.Only offering CPA? Doesn’t worry me at all. As long as you have traffic, CPA has proven to me to be the most consistent month in/out over the last few years. I’m sure that older/big affiliates will say otherwise but in theory, if the market is ever regulated there will be a huge amount of money to be made up front with all of the new players signing up at the “new” legit gaming companies.
Anyway, I don’t really want to get into an argument about the scenarios. There are honest opinions on both sides. I’d just really like to point out the illegal reality of our current status and say no way in hell will I settle for this mess. I think people are in denial if they somehow think things are going to eventually shake out to the previous status quo.
I do agree with you – no one wants it illegal.
But trust me – you do not want it legalized either (I hope I am wrong).
All I am saying is that the act from November should be removed – nothing less, nothing more. No illegal online gambling, no legal online gambling – just like before. And as you say – we already know which programs are proven worthy of working with.
Gambling in the USA in general is not like any other industry. There are probably more restrictions and legal barriers to open a casino than a gun shop. People from Europe are hard to convince on this issue, as they look differently on gambling over there. In some US states it’s a crime to posses a slot machine, if you cannot prove it’s an antique, or play poker with your buddies with real money…
I think that legalizing online gambling in USA will bring more hardship than relief.
I can see how some people would say I am crazy to hold this position – but I think people are jumping the gun here wanting to legalize gambling.
If we compare our industry in 2005 with what could happen if online gambling was made legal – I have not read any convincing argument that it would be better. If you think that the government would regulate this issue loosely – I think you would be dead wrong.
And I would really like to hear what most people think about it, especially people who in other threads in the past have asked about legalizing in the US. And also the moderators of this forum – as they should have a pretty good idea about the industry – I would like to hear what they think about it – are they “for” or “against” a possible legalizing of US online gambling, and why?
Before I begin this post; likely to be a novel. I want for S to know that sometimes we’re so on track that I wonder how you read my mind. so don’t think I’m shooting you down: we think alike.
I would really like to hear what most people think about it, especially people who in other threads in the past have asked about legalizing in the US. And also the moderators of this forum – as they should have a pretty good idea about the industry – I would like to hear what they think about it – are they “for” or “against” a possible legalizing of US online gambling, and why?
in the case of the moderators, especially the Prof: one must respect the fact that the man has provided us all a means to corrsepond (and acheive) to sponsors that are/were very suspect in their very existence – a means to get our message across that admittedly, if it had been myself – we’d all not currently enjoy as a means of communication.
More times than I can count; patience and a stand-back approach has achieved what i could never have thought possible. I applaud Lou for that.
Also must be considered, is that the Prof makes a portion, perhaps decent % of his income from this forum, and rightfully so. If not now; I know there was a time when his attention was much better paid towards other endeavors. This must be given the appreciation it deserves.
So to ask him or those that work for him to step in and in any way completely condemn anything but the most objective situations, is completely unfair. He takes enough risks as it is:
that said, myself too; would greatly appreciate his and the Mods take on things but again: I think it unfair to ask.
they MUST be objective despite their own personal thoughts on many subjects. Many times i have seen posts from people questioning whether a program should be “certified” or not?
of course there have been many times I’m certain the Prof has wanted to shoot that respective (though not likely respected) program down. He and Mods take it on the chin like the majority of us in most situations.
They must keep an optimistic outlook or I can say for certain that the majority of us would have suffered if they’d given into this thought.
so there’s that.
_____________________________________
F&P.
for the most part I agree with what you said save the CPA thing. while CPA may still be attractive to those that seek out players of any size, to those of us targetting the big hitters: its not attactive at all.
I am for legalization.
Yes, there would be rules and regulations galore.
Yes, it would likely change the playing field.
Much would change, but much would stay the same.
I would think some of the current casino, bingo and poker groups ( I know nothing of sportsbetting) would likely apply for a licence and after much jumping through hoops obtain it.
Others would choose to remain in the grey area. I believe there will likely be a place for both. Those in the grey area will likely be more flexible in what they offer players as they won’t be bound by a zillion rules and financial burdens.
Why would I prefer legalization? Because the devil you know would be less likely to throw surprise laws at you. I like knowing what I am up against. I like knowing exactly and precicely what it takes to stay within the law.
I like being an upstanding citizen, paying my dues and enjoying the reputation I deserve as an honest and straight forward business person.
The grey area bothers me, and the main reason I am still here and still participate in trying to keep this industry as clean as possible is that I am looking forward to this situation to be stabilized and regulated and allowing me to do what I do well without all these worries.
Keeping this industry on the straight and narrow as much as possibly possible by making sure a contract is a contract and a handshake is a handshake is the very foundation we can build on. Ensuring that we have an ethical work environment now will make the transition to a regulated industry a lot easier.
Operating in a grey area does not mean you can have dodgy casinos that screw players or affiliates, it means establishing a solid reputation for a fair and upstanding industry. We can and should self regulate. Unethical behavior should be outed and corrected.
Ultimately regulation (in addition to making extensive taxation of those who do not pay taxes now possible) is intended to assure accountability and proper business behavior. Affiliates pay their taxes now already, so that is not our issue. A clean industry is a good thing. Predictability and the security it provides is a good thing. Even if we end up bogged down with laws and regulation we will at least know what they are and what we need to deal with.
Yes, I am for regulation.
Hi all,
after all I’ve said: and still stand by most it: I’m in agreement with Dom.
….. tired of not knowing where I stand or what tomorrow brings.
anybody besides me feel like they can’t … or rather that it would be foolish to proceed with spending any advertising money, etc towards getting new players?
seems to me until a reasonable payment/ deposit solution is found that its money tossed into a black hole.
at least if it was legal I’d be able to make some sort of plan for proceeding. right now I feel completely like I’m treading water with no idea what direction to start swimming to reach land.
And that’s true in case of non-US players as well. Seems like every day I log into CAP only to hear about another country either outlawing .. or trying to outlaw OG.
No its not right. No I don’t like it. But from a biz perspective .. I need some kind of idea where to fish; how long the season is going to be open so that I can make some sort of business plan which can be counted on to still be a reasonable and logical approach 3 or 4 months from now.
Right now I don’t feel confident in any situation to that respect.
bb1webs wrote:anybody besides me feel like they can’t … or rather that it would be foolish to proceed with spending any advertising money, etc towards getting new players?Cant if I wanted to. This months advertising funds are currently being held hostage by Neteller and the latest rumors say they will hold it at least 6 months. If they hold it just one more week I am going to be booking a personal trip to their offices; they can pay me on the spot.
or rather that it would be foolish to proceed with spending any advertising money, etc towards getting new players?
I wouldn’t. The payment processor situation keeps changing. Neteller drops out and everyone starts signing up with Click2pay or whatever. Then they give the boot to us. Now we are suppose to sign up for epassporte. Who knows if that will still work in two weeks?
I had quit dealing with Poker Room a long time ago but still get their emails. The one I received this morning, where they say they no longer offer any way for US based affiliates to get their money, is the main reason I wouldn’t waste much time promoting, regardless of who you are targetting. This is a program where affiliates are supposedly in compliance with the law – only targeting non US players – yet this happens. I feel bad for people that have a long standing relationship with them with tons of recurring income and now it has just disappeared into thin air. Sheesh, send Krugerrands or something.
I do non gambling affiliation also and I will tell you that I have never had a problem getting paid. Not even one day late – ever.
Stupid – I really don’t think it is possible that the situation will go back to the way it was before. It will either stay some form of the mess it is now or eventually there will be some sort of regulation on it.
yes ,yes !
no gambling no life:burnafatt
