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but I think you should follow your own advice and get out now.
Ouch, now you putting words in my mouth – all I am saying is that we do not need legal gambling in the USA as it will wipe out the affiliates first, and what we need is that “Bill” taken off the books, and nothing more or less.
You’d be finding it a tough arguement to go to the lawmakers and say that you want to continue to make money in this area – but don’t want it to be legal.
I’m struggling to think of a viable angle to persue there …
We can hardly be squealing “don’t make it legal because then I can’t make any money …”
:notify:We need regulation.
We need online gambling legalised.
I can’t agree with your position at all.
:1circlingLegalizing gambling won’t eliminate affiliates. There are plenty of affiliate industries which are legal and support affiliates, and many of them pay far more than $10/player. Just because hotel rooms are legal doesn’t mean that Vegas hotels don’t pay affiliates or pay for advertising on websites.
Ok, forget about anything I have said and lets focus only on the hard cold facts:
1. Gambling in USA is regulated by the local Gambling Board/Commission, so if it became legal online – there must be an Online Gambling Board to say who gets in, what the rules are etc. And that gambling board will make sure that only land based casinos will have the right to open an onilne gambling website (if it’s not in the law already).
2. The land based casinos will get together and decide on how that industry will be run – most likely there will be no affiliates like there are now, or even if there are, they will be paid a very small sum. Do you honestly believe that you will get 40% rev share from Harrah’s??? 5% would be the tops!
3. As far as search engines – the top 10 resluts (at least) will be owned by the casinos themselves, due to heavy advertising and their own teams of SEO – so not much there for an affiliate, if there are affiliates.
4. Online casinos without US license will become illegal (there is no law about this right now), and everyone who advertise them – breaking the law.
So as you see, you will be breaking the law big time, if gambling online is legal in the USA.
And the only possible chance the act to the Port security bill to be gone is only one – it does not belong to a Port security bill.
Yeah, they’ll possibly pay smaller commissions, but at the same time, conversions should go up because of brand name recognition and trust factors. Try a search for “las vegas lodging” in Google. The casinos don’t dominate that search term. Roughly half the sites there are affiliates.
The sky won’t fall if we legalize online gambling.
TheGooner wrote:We need regulation.
We need online gambling legalised.When online gambling is legalised it may not be better the situation before, but it will be better then the current situation.
Legitmate business can be done, without providers wondering – “Can I enter this market and be associated with this industry”
Although a regulated market US DOES NOT mean that the current gaming operators will be able to enter the market. A regulated market in the form of US licensing could mean that licenses are given out to a select number of operators, rather then to everyone, to operate in the US.
Yeah, they’ll possibly pay smaller commissions, but at the same time, conversions should go up because of brand name recognition and trust factors. Try a search for “las vegas lodging” in Google. The casinos don’t dominate that search term. Roughly half the sites there are affiliates.
The two industries cannot be compared – people are searching for empty rooms and best price – that’s why the hotel industry online is doing good – they are not looking for a room, they are looking for a room on the exact date at the exact place.
Also, there are tens of thousands of hotels in USA owned by different people (franchise) – big competition, where all of Harra’s casinos are owned and operated by Harrah’s entertainment.
But you type “casino” and see what results come out in the top 100…
Would there be advertising – of course, as I said – Casinocity will find plenty of advertisers, gambling911 is saying they are getting advertisers not related to online gambling, and I am sure that if we push our land based casino directory, we’d be able to get a buck or two, but CAP will be gone
Of course the two industries can be compared. If the casinos in Las Vegas were interested in doing massive amounts of SEO, they’d already own Google for all 10 of the results for their lodging searches, and they don’t. There is no reason to think they’ll suddenly get interested in SEO just because online gambling becomes legal.
Will they compete in the SERP’s? Sure.
Online casinos compete in the SERP’s now too.
Ok, but most of the visitors of this forum probably get 5 players a month – how would you justify to them that this would be a good thing?
How would they be happy getting 5% Rev on those players, when right now, at this very moment they make 40% Rev?
Or is this forum only for the people who get the big traffic?
Right now it is not illegal to gamble online or play poker online (Wash. excluded) so what’s the problem? I dont think anyone here will be arrested tomorrow for having a banner on their informational site. The only problem is the payment method – and thus – the bill that’s the problem.
Why no one pushed for legal online gambling two years ago as they are now?!? What was so bad then – nothing, we knew which casinos are good, which casinos will pay their players their winnings, people trusted us with our advice, and it was all fine. Was it illegal? No. Was it legal? No.
I just think that the focus should be on taking off the act from the Port bill, and not trying to make gambling legal in the US. This is the only thing that could be beneficial for everyone.
Stupid…….i guess your assuming that if it gets legalised, the gov would have in place all the banking restrictions that will make it impossible for US players to deposit to sites that dont have a US license ???
If thats not the case, then why would i as an affiliate promote harrahs and not bodog
Now if it is the case that in say 3 years and theres no way for US players to deposit apart from depositing at a US licensed casino, i still think they will use affiliates.
As you said theres 100 casinos competing and each casino has teams of accountants doing number crunching and they will tell the owner of the casino that spending $10,000,000 on advertising will bring in X amount of players……….then they will tell the owner that setting up an affiliate program which gives away say 30% which cost $1,000,000 to set up and will generate revs after affiliate comission of MULTIPLE times whatever the X amount was for standard advertising.
the affiliate model works……… it works better then ANY other form of paid advertising.
These guys just want to make more profit…. as much profit as they can make
what do you think is more profitable
spending say $10,000,000 a year on advertising
or
setting up an affiliate program that requires minimal running costs and will collect more players then their $10,000,000 in advertising costs would.
which ever model makes more money for the casino will win !!!
and thats the affiliate model.I bet a casino with a standard affiliate program would get more players and profit from online players then another casino spending $20,000,000 a year in advertising.
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.im sure i read that 40% of partypokers players were from affiliates….
Now how much do you think it costs a year to run the affiliate team ?Now how much do you think partypoker spends on TV, radio, print etc advertising ?
I bet its many many multiple times more yet it only brings in 1.5 times the amount of players
so even after paying comission to affiliates it still much more profitable
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.Spending $10 mil will bring more players.
Casinos will have the chance to advertise on TV, radio and newspapers, and those marketing industries know when to run an ad to get male players age 21-30. They know when to advertise to get an audience.
Do you think that all the gambling websites combined would even touch the players generated through a TV ad on Fox Networks? In USA there is nothing more powerful in terms of marketing than TV.
As I said – they will advertise on websites, but for the regular affiliate the price will not be worth it.
If thats not the case, then why would i as an affiliate promote harrahs and not bodog
Because, as I said, casinos not having US license will be explicitly made illegal, and people who advertise them as well.
And look at Bodog – they have the worst affiliate program – small commissions, stats update once a day, I have no detail statistic as far my players – why dont they spend a few bucks to improve the aff program, instead of paying for the TV ads they have been running?
Hi all,
yes its true (possibly) that vegas won’t seek to own the serps (though they do have the money to accomplish this task save a perhaps a few really good SEOers and those willing to go after the very obscure phrases) but what I think many fail to realize is the advertising factor in the mix.
you won’t be able to turn on a tv show, drive down a highway (billboards) or read a magazine without having the vegas online casino branding pounded into your heads at all times.
we’ve had this discussion before but I stand by my logic that when major players such as Harrahs constantly bombard US players with ads like “we’re US regulated, have payout ratios regulated and proven by US third-party respected institutions who are also gov regulated to be providing accurate info, have guaranteed payments on cash-outs .. again by US regulation … (and probably more on this angle but for now that’s enough to prove my point) … why would you ever consider playing somewhere else?”
and they’ll finish these ads by pounding into your heads their .com address and that means that there will be little reason to even go so far as to search the SEs for addresses. YOu’ll know Harrah’s .com address as well as you know google. how many people need to do a search on an SE for google.com?
admittedly there ARE searches done on SEs for google.com but I doubt all that many of them are people trying to find their address. More likely its people wanting more information on the SE for whatever reason. And I won’t argue that there will be a % of those who will search for Harrahs that are seeking their address that will actually find other sites than Harrahs and from there ….. yes they will likely click a link from (your site?) to get to Harrah’s and thus you’ve just made a signup.
But i cannot help think that is not going to be a number that is going to make many of us rich. Harrahs.com (or whatever they end up using) will be as well known to people as is Mcdonalds when you’re talking wanting a burger. Kids will know that .com address long before they’re ever old enough to gamble.
Personally I think 99% of us will definitely need to find another niche if it ever goes legal and regulated in the states.
Some argue that the number of players that regulation/legalization will increase to … will make up for the obvious losses but I disagree. I think that if/when vegas goes online the way it will work will be they … and they alone will be where US players can gamble. Vegas will likely bombard the net with different names of their casinos and perhaps even different versions of software but in the end it will still all end up in their pockets.
what was id Bobby D said in the movie “casino”?
in the end we win, it always comes back to us
I can’t see it being different in this case.
Just because it becomes legal to gamble online .. doesn’t mean it will be legal to gamble anywhere online. Quite likely just the opposite. There will likely be out of country taxes on those seeking to play outside the states .. which will probably be steep penalities since the gov will be looking for the player to make up for what the US gov can’t tax against the off-shore casino … in any winnings which players seek to bring into the states. This implemented to keep US money to be played and lost .. in the states.
Add the fact that no gov entity is going to be in any hurry to help those cheated that choose to play out of country … to guaranteed payback ratios / guaranteed to get paid on cashouts when playing at Vegas … + they could continue to make it illegal to play outside the states .. and you’re not going to see a huge stampede of US players seeking to spend their money off-shore.
which leaves you back to advertising Vegas casinos … and remember US citizens will know their .com addresses as well as they know google.com … if not likely better .. and it doesn’t paint a profitable picture to me.
And the days of getting rev share will be long-gone.
Sorry to sound so pessimistic. hope I’m wrong. But that’s how I’d do it if I were Vegas.
which ever model makes more money for the casino will win !!!
and thats the affiliate modelif that’s true … then why did party ever bother to advertise on tv in the first place. and that’s sending players to the .net version … not straight to their .com version
And not to mention the fact that gambling is so regulated – affiliates if any will have to be regulated as well. (I am not talking about banner advertising, but CPA or Rev)
And to put an end to how different lodging and casino industries – I can open a bed and brekfast tomorrow, but a casino – I dont think so.
Stupid wrote:And not to mention the fact that gambling is so regulated – affiliates if any will have to be regulated as well. (I am not talking about banner advertising, but CPA or Rev)And to put an end to how different lodging and casino industries – I can open a bed and brekfast tomorrow, but a casino – I dont think so.
ok, you cant open a bank tomorrow(much harder then opening a casino) yet the banks still pay VERY good money to affiliates……. why, because affiliate model are more profitable then spending money on raw advertising
yes of course they spend money on raw advertising because they need to build a brand and brand awareness and raw advertising is still profitable, just because its not as profitable as other methods, it doesnt mean they shouldnt do it.
why doe banks do it ?
why doe ebay do it ?
why doe william hill do it ?
why doe amazon do it ?why dont they just spend all that money they pay affiliates on advertising ? becasue its not as profitable.
The affiliate model works and whichever casino wants to make more money will do it.
you mention that all the land based casinos dont offer bonuses, thats because they have higher fixed costs then online casinos(hence online casinos can offer better odds) the same as me buying a brand new laptop will cost much more on the high street as opposed to buying it online ( online stores offering a discount is the same as casinos offering a signup bonus)
