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Today I read this news from CAP newsletter and was surprised, because we know that it’s kwblue idea to monitor T&Cs of all aff programs, I respect kwblue’s work and I trust AGD.
And now I understand why AGD forum was closed at CAP:sarcasm:.
But what I want to say, I will subscribe to CAP alerts, because any new tools are interesting for me, but AGD will be my main source where always I will be able to find the truth.
@kwblue 186108 wrote:
I worked SO hard… spent a LOT of my own money to make AGD a unique place where affiliates can get real information without a monetary slant and this is what I get.
When did CAP become a place where ideas and livelihoods were stolen?
I am way more disappointed than mad 🙁
Andy has worked hard and invested alot of his time and money ,I hope more people will support him by becoming active at his forum. PRK said it best and maybe this is why andy lost his forum last month?
I understand everyone’s concerns with launching the CAP alerts system, but I’d like to explain things from our point of view…
CAP is no longer simply a user forum. We’ve grown a lot in the past few years, and we’ve taken on the responsibility of becoming a complete affiliate resource by launching a full range of products and services under the CAP umbrella. CAP has become a resource that many affiliates rely upon to provide industry-related updates and information, so this is a move that we felt was our responsibility to make, in the interests of keeping our affiliates as informed as we possibly can.
The CAP mission is to help make sure that affiliates are protected and earn as much as they can, which is precisely why we launched the CAP Alerts system. This Terms & Conditions update is just the first component of a larger CAP Alerts program. We’re well aware that AGD performs a similar service, and we have also supported their efforts in their past and have the utmost respect for them. But this decision to implement our own T&C updates, and all decisions that we make here at CAP, come directly from the needs of our rapidly growing community and not from any motivation to undermine any of our friends or competitors in this industry.
CAP Alerts is something that has been planned for a very long time to enhance the user experience at CAP. It’s a way to help enforce the legitimacy of the CAP certification, something we take very seriously here. And remember, CAP alerts terms updater only applies to those programs that are certified, and is actually free to both members and affiliate programs.
As the CAP community grows, we want to make sure the products that we roll out suit your needs, which is one of the reasons I am always at our events gathering feedback to make sure that we can provide what you need. I really appreciate everyone’s honest feedback and we don’t aim to do anything to alienate you, but hopefully this explains why we made this decision.
I wasn’t really planning on weighing in on this topic again because I believe I already gave my position on the topic. However, Arjun’s post does not sit perfectly well with me (sorry Arjun, no offense intended).
Lou (Professor) gave me his word that CAP would not introduce this feature. I’m sure Lou remembers the 2 conversations we had in this regard. That is one of the reasons I am disappointed. It is quite obvious that he did so in order to pacify me while working on the AGD-Copy. In fact, I decided at that time not to release AGD Alerts via email because CAP so graciously gave me a forum. So I alerted users in the CAP forum and kept our alerts system hidden as a sign of faith to CAP.
As an affiliate, I do not see how copying other affiliates in the name of (as you so elegantly put it):
Arjun wrote:The CAP mission is to help make sure that affiliates are protectedprotects me.
Furthurmore, without AGD… CAP would never have come across the idea of Terms Alerts. It is complete and blatant theft in my opinion and not some ‘cool feature’ that CAP dreamed up in order to make a complete offering to affiliates.
Am I upset? Yes. And, I believe rightly so.
I will try hard not to post anymore in this thread and just leave this as my final word on the whole topic. It is really disappointing, though, IMO that an affiliate’s work has to be copied in order to keep them from succeeding (which is what I truly believe is happening – and Lou knows why I believe this).
Signing out… sorry if I offended anyone with my post.
Andy
Arjun,
Have been a big supporter of CAP for the past 5 years but you are marginalizing some of your oldest and most loyal members. How does have a terms alert notification legitimize CAP Certification – how is it any different to before?
The Terms and Conditions notification has been the bread and butter for kwblue, a long time member of CAP. You’ve basically kicked the legs out from under him.
By copying what is a very unique idea, are you advocating that is fine for affiliates to go out copy and tweak peoples work to suit themselves?
Would anyone be annoyed if CAP came out with other peoples ideas?
– remote stats system where you can login into all your casino programs stats via one system.
– a tool to help affiliates keep up to date with bonus information from casinos for their players,
– or a tool to keep track of all online casino jackpots and when they get hit.At which does a blatant disregard for other peoples work go to far?
@ArjunCAP 186264 wrote:
CAP Alerts is something that has been planned for a very long time to enhance the user experience at CAP. It’s a way to help enforce the legitimacy of the CAP certification, something we take very seriously here. And remember, CAP alerts terms updater only applies to those programs that are certified, and is actually free to both members and affiliate programs.
I feel like I am in a tough spot here, this whole industry is getting ugly with one another and I am sad to see it going on. While I am a huge supporter of CAP and will continue to be, I am also a supporter of AGD and I continue to be.
kar;186287 wrote:Arjun,
How does have a terms alert notification legitimize CAP Certification – how is it any different to before?Having this functionality allows us to ensure that the terms of a particular program are in agreement with the standards of CAP affiliates. That’s specifically why this free service is designated for CAP registered members and CAP Certified programs only.
I’m sure you are aware of the recent implication we had with BCP as their terms were not suitable…we want to make sure that affiliates are alerted promptly via e-mail and pm when something like this happens and we also want to make sure that programs don’t change their terms once they’ve already been certified. Just as we did with BCP, having this functionality helps us to mediate controversial situations to make things more suitable for you
Arjun’s right, guys. We’re expanding our operations here at CAP, and we need to put in these kinds of new features to help the affiliates that come to our site. I feel badly that so many of you, who are among the most senior and respected members we have, are so disappointed by this action, but I think you’re seeing it the wrong way.
There’s no reason why anyone has to stop using AGD’s services. We’re not trying to take away AGD’s traffic. I hope all of you continue to use both sites. But for the people who only come to CAP — and there are many — we want to make sure they have every advantage we can provide. The new CAP Alerts feature is part of giving them that full range of benefits. And that’s all there is to it.
Of course, I’m still new here, so I don’t really know the history of who said what to whom at what point. My job is to make CAP the best possible experience for affiliates. And affiliates will benefit from this new feature, which will hopefully make them more confident doing business with these programs. That’s a win-win for everyone.
@NathanCAP 186309 wrote:
I feel badly that so many of you, who are among the most senior and respected members we have, are so disappointed by this action, but I think you’re seeing it the wrong way.
So if I set up a website let’s say identical to CAP, it would be OK too? I wouldn’t try to take away CAP’s traffic, no, but I would use all the same features, and affiliates could use both websites, right? And of course I would integrate a system like stats-remote, etc..
With all my respect to CAP and to the Professor, I don’t see this step as an improvement, I’m rather disappointed because I know that after the early years CAP has the financial background to finance these kind of developments while nowadays tend to forget that guy who had this idea in the first place and who had supported CAP for a long time with this service – and yes, making CAP stronger – by offering this service – rather than his own business.
I am a supporter of CAP, but I am not a supporter these kind of actions and now I clearly understand why a senior and established member could have gray reputation. This is so wrong on many levels.
Originally Posted by NathanCAP
I feel badly that so many of you, who are among the most senior and respected members we have, are so disappointed by this action, but I think you’re seeing it the wrong way.We are senior and respected members because we stand up for what we believe in and we voice our thoughts when we feel something is not fair. I hope we continue to be valued and respected in the CAP community after this as well.
I can see both sides. As I’ve had my software “idea” that I developed in 2001 used/implemented/modified by other affiliates. Should I expect to be the only one allowed to list my affilite tags to casinos in a downloadble application on the internet?
Do we start telling people what they can and can’t do in this business now?
I’m a supporter of AGD as well as CAP and would like to be able to keep it that way without feeling pressure over the decision.
@ArjunCAP 186307 wrote:
Having this functionality allows us to ensure that the terms of a particular program are in agreement with the standards of CAP affiliates. That’s specifically why this free service is designated for CAP registered members and CAP Certified programs only.
I’m sure you are aware of the recent implication we had with BCP as their terms were not suitable…we want to make sure that affiliates are alerted promptly via e-mail and pm when something like this happens and we also want to make sure that programs don’t change their terms once they’ve already been certified. Just as we did with BCP, having this functionality helps us to mediate controversial situations to make things more suitable for you
I am sure if that is your motivation you will be decertifying a few groups here with negative carryovers and other predatory terms. AGD is the ONLY site of its kind , his work is VERY important and everything you have used as a reason for this is fluff.Andy already does that job for our community and a fine job too.
@GamTrak 186328 wrote:
I can see both sides. As I’ve had my software “idea” that I developed in 2001 used/implemented/modified by other affiliates. Should I expect to be the only one allowed to list my affilite tags to casinos in a downloadble application on the internet?
Do we start telling people what they can and can’t do in this business now?
I’m a supporter of AGD as well as CAP and would like to be able to keep it that way without feeling pressure over the decision.
http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com may have the right to do it but Ethically they should not.It is a bad example and I understand that you cant have others dictate what you do in your business but I am speechless right now.
BTW – The Canbet term update is not for November 12th, it is for November 5th… Happened a week ago as reported by AGD.
http://www.affiliateguarddog.com/terms-changes/category/commission-king/
Just an FYI so you can update that CAP Alert. I would have posted in that thread, but it is closed (for obvious reasons).
Thanks for your time.
I am going to avoid this one as there is a lot of emotions being injected into a business decision. At CAP we are committed to providing a one stop, full service community for affiliate webmasters. We have been committed to that ideal since day one and that is not going to change in the future. Terms and Conditions monitoring IS important and we saw just how crucial that was for us as a community when we had the big BCP incident. Plain and simple, CAP needs real time updates on T&Cs to do what we do better. Like Andy we have also worked hard to develop the technology to do that. Lets look at a couple of things and then I am bowing out of this one as I dont want it to be twisted into a “Lou” thing.
1. This is a free service and its totally opt in. If you dont want to take advantage of it no one is forcing you too. AGD provides a good service too and if you choose to use that one as your source for information thats fine. Freedom of choice is always a good thing I dont think we deserve a beating for wanting to ensure we had real time reporting for our certification team and for our members who wanted the convenience of seeing it here.
2. When WE discover a terms and condition problem we get a solution. We are well equipted to do so due to the size of our community and the relationships we have with the programs. We dont just email people we know them. We see them in person at every event and every show. We have a real one on one relationship with the owners of the casinos and poker rooms not just lower level employees. We can make a real difference and we do it. Everyone will benefit from actively montioring terms and conditions whether you choose to use our service or not. So its a definite win for ALL affiliates. Be Happy.
3. No one in business operates in a vacuum. None of you do, nor do we. I am sure the FIRST Online Casino or Poker Room would love to lay claim to the IDEA and all the hard word they put into developing it and demand that no one else dare to open a casino. Right?
I am sure the first person to develop a casino portal felt equally strongly that this was their idea and how dare anyone else open one, no?
I am sure Ray Croc felt that since McDonalds had the original idea of mass producing hamburgers in one format and serving them fast and cheap meant he should be the only fast food burger place on the planet, no?
When I opened CAP it was BEFORE GPWA…. Are you guys all beating down Michael Corfman’s door and demanding he not steal Lou’s hard work and great idea? We launched PAP LONG before there was a PAW, but did we cry foul and demand we be the only Poker Affiliate Resource?
Who started the first Players Forum? Should everyone else drop theirs now as it just aint fair since you werent the original one? Who was the first brainy individual who decided to promote bonus money to players? Does he/she get a free pass and the rest of the crowd shuts down?
Guys business is business. It’s not a hobby. It’s not an emotional struggle. It’s all of us trying to make a living for our families and doing the best we can.
I honestly hope Andy does blockbuster business with AGD. We promoted him here for years for free. We had Andy speak at our event when he started out too which lent legitimacy to what he was doing. We helped him alot and we have no qualms about it. He knows and any of you senior members know it too.
Earlier this year we tried to license the technology from him but unfortunatley its based on open source coding (Word Press) and wasnt secure enough for our needs and he was not willing to offer any exclusivity. Do we just say oh well, Andy says no so no is no? Come on now, do you run everything you do in YOUR business past everyone else for a thumbs up first? Why is that fair to do to us? CAP is a business. With employees. With Shareholders. With responsiblities. We arent a hobby and never said we were. Give us a break once in awhile.
In closing its our sincerest desire to give you guys the best affiliate community on the planet and if we find a service that helps us do that even a little bit better we will. I am not going to appologize for that. Thats what business is supposed to do, strive to be the best. I hope all of you also strive to be the best in what you do.
For years we have provided a great place for networking with your peers, a place to enhance your business relationships, become friends, do business, learn, exchange ideas, go to great meetings and conferences in exotic places around the world for free. We print free magazines to serve you. We do podcasts to get information out there to you. We fight for affiliate rights. We arbitrate disputes and we do our best to bring everyone TOGEHER for the betterment of the industry and for you as individuals. Can we get just a little slack?
After all that, I dont know why we have to always be on the defensive with just about anything we do and there are few people who are JUST SURE we ALWAYS wrong or have a world domination agenda. Shit its gets depressing after awhile. My team lives, breathe, and sweats CAP 24 hours a day and then we get hammered for adding on another FREE service that WILL benefit everyone.
Ok enough preaching. I have to go to bed as I have a flight to Vegas in the morning. Have a great weekend guys and just remember we do the things we do in an honest attempt to make things better. Dont hate us for that.
