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I am so glad someone brought this up finally, I have been seeing this a lot as of late and your 100% correct it is bad on everyone all around! Thanks for the post Professor and I hope these people take your warning serious.
Give me a break… I am actually tired of the casinos blaming the affiliates all the time for the bonus abusers.
a.) The casinos not just encourage, but insist on affiliates to advertise a bonus.
b.) the casinos are those offering the bonus, not the affiliates.
Do some of the aff managers live in la-la-land? Land based casinos have been combating the cheaters since their beginning…In the Wild West days the number 1 cause of death was at the poker table cheating. And do they think that there will be no abusers (on both affiliate and players side) on the Internet?
Quit whining and write better bonus terms. You need to go and punch in the face whoever wrote those bonus T&Cs.
I mean, who came up with this joke as bonus T&C:
…this casino will allow you to immediately withdraw your initial deposit right back into your bank account leaving you with the same amount FREE in your casino account
Smarten up!
This is promoting Fraud. PERIOD!!!
Quote:“…But the great thing about this casino is that it will allow you to immediately withdraw your initial deposit right back into your bank account leaving you with the same amount FREE in your casino account….”“…Remember, this a 100% risk free because you will immediately withdraw your money…”
To say its the casinos whining is a joke.
I know its vogue to bash the casinos at any given chance, but your position is indefensible and irresponsible.
Quote:the casinos are those offering the bonus, not the affiliatesBullshit! The casino is NOT telling players to deposit money then immediately withdraw it so the system doesnt have time to remove the bonus money from the account. If that is NOT abuse then what is? And the AFFILIATE IS ADVISING PLAYERS TO DO THIS.
Do you REALLY think in their terms its says “Its ok to deposit funds then immediately withdraw them and keep the bonus money and then play the bonus money and try to collect any winnings”Stupid you cant possibly condone fraud. If you then thats STUPID.
Quote:“…But the great thing about this casino is that it will allow you to immediately withdraw your initial deposit right back into your bank account leaving you with the same amount FREE in your casino account….”“…Remember, this a 100% risk free because you will immediately withdraw your money…”
With all due respect – if the casino allows this practice then they are allowing themselves to be taken advantage of. An operator wishing to protect themselves can simply rescind this policy and not allow a withdrawal to be made without either the T&C being fulfilled or else a refund requested if no play has taken place.
Unless, of course, I am not aware of some method or loophole which allows this to be done at any casino using the same software…
That being said, I also don’t condone this method of marketing – the end result will be much tougher conditions for everyone concerned, just as Professor said.
Perhaps I chose the wrong wording in calling this Bonus Abuse as it really is FRAUD. Its tied into bonuses so thats why I titled it the way I did.
Bottom Line
LEGITIMATE PLAYERSand AFFILIATES are HURT when fraud is used against the casino. A lot of innocent players DO get miscast as abusers because of a few bad apples who commit fraud.
This is not a case of someone winning at roulette on a single bet, its a case of an affiliate advising players to rip off a casino by depositing then immediately removing their funds to fool the system. Its FRAUD.
I think the way this works is by beating the computer by withdrawing before these things can be recorded? But then surely the casino would refuse to pay winnings?
However that may be, it’s a stupid way to advertise and a good way to NOT make any money.
Spear with all due respect this is a loophole in the software that is being exploited for fraudlent purposes. Its not a “term and condition” of a promotion.
The best way I can describe this is an example:
You go down to a local bank.
You open an account.
You deposit $500 cash in your new account.
The teller gives you a temporary ATM card.
You come back an hour later and withdraw the $500 from another teller.
You run outside to the ATM and immediately withdraw another $500 as the system didnt update the database fast enough to catch the transaction.If this happened its fraud. You arent applauded for your cleverness and the bank doesnt throw their hands up with a smile and say go ahead and keep the money our mistake. You have to return those funds or you are charged with a crime.
Thats basically whats going on here. And to make matters worse an affiliate figured out you could pull this fraud and is advising others to go into the bank and do it. Then they have the NERVE to expect a referral fee for sending in the fraudster!
Its not right. Even if you hate banks, its not right.
Of course I do not condone fraud. And I do not want to start an argument, but I would not blindly defend any online casino which is obviously poorly established to begin with.
Since you did not post the actual casino name, I can only comment on the e-book content – which says that the casino’s bonus T&C allow you to deposit, get the bonus and immediatelly withdraw your money. If this is not stupid, I dont know what is.
I do not condone fraud, but I am realistic enough to see that such bonus T&C WILL create bonus abusers and fraudilent affiliates. There are many poeople on both sides wich would take a shortcut if given to them – it’s human nature. If you have solid bonus T&C – you will have no bonus abuser, nor affiliates taking advantage of it, period.
From your quote from the e-book is very clear the casino’s fault for creating a “breading ground” for fraudilent activity. Again, a good online casino would have been proactive in respect to bonus abusers and would have written better T&C.
The reason I am upset is not because I love bashing the casinos, but because I would like to see more quality in the industry. And I do feel for the many affiliates of those kinds of online casinos which would find their accounts closed because they have unintentionally sent a few fraud players, but because the casino hired a 3rd grader to write their bonus T&C and a few bad apples took advantage of it – they will loose their revenues.
Condoning bonus fraud is bad. But when the casino is the reason for the fraud to exist, opens a Pandora’s box for many innocent affiliates.
I think affiliates should require from the online casinos better bonus T&C, just the same way they ask us not to send them bonus abusers.If the casino’s bonus terms are poorly written – we all suffer.
Ok, that’s how I thought it worked.
And it is just wrong.
I think we were all double posting.
Stupid, you need to go back and read the professor’s post.
I have never played at an online casino which would release a first time withdrawal before they receive at least a copy of your ID and credit card…
But than again, who knows, we dont know which casino we are talking about here…
Stupid wrote:I have never played at an online casino which would release a first time withdrawal before they receive at least a copy of your ID and credit card…But than again, who knows, we dont know which casino we are talking about here…
I have to agree with Stupid on this. Furthermore most casinos I play at have the cashout in a pending state for a minimum of a several hours before processing the withdrawal.
I would be very interested to know what software this casino operates on. They really need to sort out this major flaw and fast.
That said I do not condone fraud and I certainly do not target my sites towards fraudsters.
Stupid do you know whos really stupid in all this?
And I can say this as I am an Engineer…
THE FUCKING IDIOT in QC who didnt catch this while testing the security of the system….
They should be fired.
But that being said exploiting the loophole is still fraud and its not allowable. It’s also not responsible to use the knowledge of this system fault as a marketing tool.
And as you stated there ARE fraudulent affiliates and players who will try to take advantage of this exploit. And if their CPA commissions arent paid or if their withdrawels are denied they WILL threaten or actually go to the message boards and attempt to extort payment by labeling the casino as a rogue. And people with good intentions will try to help them not knowing what really happened. I have seen it happen here and at other places.
The reason I didnt publish the casino name is because I didnt want to cause a mad rush by scammers to that casino to try to replicate what has been discussed. They are repairing this loophole now so in the future it wont be a problem, but its still important for people to know what kind of fraud is going on out there, hence my post.
Oh, I see now, we are talking about some proprietary software.
Then everything is possible. I though the casino was b*tchin because of bonus t&c abuse. I have my own opinion on any software not from the big 3 but it’s not the purpose of this thread. :hattip:
Either this guy was extremely lucky to find this loophole or he was part of the development team; maybe he was the one who left the loophole in first place… :stirpot:
Ok – if it’s a loophole then the operator should be getting back to the software manufacturer to close the loophole. These things don’t require major fixes – just someone with half a brain to add a few lines of code.
As I said, I don’t condone the method of marketing – but if you don’t lock your door because the door is busted, don’t blame the thief for telling his friends that they can have a free ride. Call the locksmith and have him install a new lock.
