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It’s acceptable to change terms and conditions for new sign ups. If prospective new partners read the new terms and conditions and accept them then that’s fine.
It’s never ok to make retroactive changes that effect affiliates who joined under a previous agreement and understanding.
Professor wrote:It’s acceptable to change terms and conditions for new sign ups. If prospective new partners read the new terms and conditions and accept them then that’s fine.It’s never ok to make retroactive changes that effect affiliates who joined under a previous agreement and understanding.
That’s exactly it.
We went through that last year.
You must have noticed it going on then Simon?
No retroactive changes!
Simon, are these changes retroactive?
this is definitely not the news i wanted to read when i finally got online. so much for predatory clauses…
this just doesn’t sound right but whatever. for every action there is equal and opposite reaction. maybe you guys should consider enforcing the bet365 rule? no payment until you have 5 “active” players…and that would scrap you from a lot of affiliate sites…
what a bugger…
Simoneaton wrote:I have looked at everyones account here who has posted and these changes do not affect any of you as you either have:-1) Never been affiliate of 9am nor VIP
2) Not sent any players in the past, or got no active players under you
3) You have sent over 3 depositors in the last three monthsSo I am unsure why you are jumping on the band wagon of complaining when you clearly have not demostrated a reason to do so. If you are one of the affiliates who falls in this cat. which I can assure you I could not see from looking at any of your stats for the ones I could find then we are open to listening and working with you.
Because this is a community and these people are all acting in the interest of the community. In case you hadn’t noticed, that’s what CAP is about.
justred wrote:Because this is a community and these people are all acting in the interest of the community. In case you hadn’t noticed, that’s what CAP is about.That’s exactly right. This is not a matter of individuals, it is an industry matter.
Retroactive changes to a contract are not acceptable to the affiliate industry. I think we clearly established that last year.
If you want to make these changes from this date forward, there is nothing illegal about it. Retroactively it’s breach of contract.
Sorry Simon, but this is an industry principle for us. The contracts we enter into must be kept. Otherwise there is chaos.
Mario wrote:
Again, it is important to know that this will NOT be an automated process. Affiliates concerned will be contacted timely and discussion will be entered into to explore the situation.
It is not businesslike when an affiliate’s earnings depend on somebody’s free interpretation of certain T&C. It is not a flea market with its “individual approach” when one can bargain a better deal for himself! Terms & Conditions are written exactly in the way a company wants them to be followed. There should be no grey areas, only black and white. These are TERMS and CONDITIONS, not FREE INTERPRETATIONS of the written, official rules. If it clearly defines certain conditions for keeping players for life, if it is written and agreed upon by both sides, it should be so. All talks about “an individual approach”, “considering each case separately”, “various interpretations” should be left aside. It is way too subjective! Today one person in charge of an aff. program, and this is his interpretaion of the T&C, tomorrow another manager takes his place, then he/she can interpret the T&C in his own way. Is this the right way to do business? I do not think so!
As to this paragraph:Originally Posted by Simoneaton
I have looked at everyones account here who has posted and these changes do not affect any of you as you either have:-1) Never been affiliate of 9am nor VIP
2) Not sent any players in the past, or got no active players under you
3) You have sent over 3 depositors in the last three months,
I can confirm that I certainly belong to the category #2. I think that everybody here, even affiliates belonging to the first two categories have the right to speak out freely, and to share their opinion on the matter. Can anybody guarantee that an affiliate currently in either group will never get in a situation when he/she will have less than 3 depositors/ 3-month period?…
If the only weak point of the old T&C is the hassle with small amount cheques, then increase the minimum amount, as was noted by Engineer. Let’s talk business!. Either a particular condition is clearly stated in the T&C, or it is deleted!A lot of solutions have been offered by board members here that can easily solve this supposed “dilemma.”
Personally I think if you are tired of sending cheques for say $15, then why not increase the minimum amounts or just use Neteller altogether?
For those cheques that bounce…no big deal, just stop sending them for that client.
Regards,
Tim
I agree with what everyone else is saying. This clause is not fair to the affiliate industry in general, no matter which of the 3 buckets each of us fall within.
I’ll just add that if writing small checks to addresses that don’t exist is the issue that you put in a clause for new affiliates that covers a minimum payout and requires that payment can be made for them to continue to be paid. If an affiliate is too lazy to give you a proper address, then you are well within your right to hold onto their commissions, but the predatory clauses need to go.
I rarely make “official” statements, but…
The APCW completely agrees that any retroactive change of your T&C’s on players obtained under a “lifetime” agreement is at best unacceptable. Affiliates do not have the luxury of altering our agreement when it suits us, and for you to do so (especially without prior announcement) reflects poorly on an otherwise outstanding program.
There are many American webmasters who may need some time to figure out how to continue sending traffic without risking their personal freedom, and this almost feels like the imposition of a deadline.
That said, I am certain this has a lot to do with “trimming the fat” so you can remain competitive in an increasingly lean market. I do believe, however, that it is a dangerous balancing act to attempt a change of this sort.
This may seem like a good “business decision” now, but I believe that — in the long term — it will be one you regret.
This is bad news for both active and none active webmasters with an account at vip profits.
Yes we are personally planning on sending players regular to any of your brands, but if I slowplay 3 months maybe changing marketing efforts, I will loose all previous players…..that’s bad either way.
If you are planning to cut on low commission checks, why not raise the payout.
I want to “know” my account on VIP profits are safe no matter what.
I have had players on 9am depositing 4-6 months after they first created their account, and im talking about good revenue
Peace
Can someone from VIP Profits please provide an update?
Will the new T&Cs be enforced retroactively or not?
I will blacklist any program that retroactively changes their terms and conditions. If VIP Profits intends to enforce the new terms retroactively, I plan to take the same course of action that I took with Referback, Vegas Partner, and Fortune Affiliates when they pulled the same stunt last year. Retroactive changes will not stand.
Simon?
Are you going to alter that clause?
Simon, add me to the list that doesn’t like this change. Whilst I acknowledge the cost in paying out small amounts, I don’t think raising the minimum payout is a solution your accounting team would like. It just means lots of small balances still hanging around and a liability appearing in you balance sheet that you may never clear.
There must be some better way of clearing these small amounts when the affiliate has gone awol and you can’t get the cheque presented. Maybe something along the lines of if the amount is less than $50 and the cheque is returned, you email the affiliate and they have a month (or some other timeframe) to provide a new method of payment or physical address. If no response then they forfeit those earnings, HOWEVER, they are not terminated. This way the liability is cleared from your books. Then if one of their old players comes back and starts earning the sportsbook/casino and the affiliate a decent amount then they still benefit.
Hopefully the above gets over the problem of clearing the small amounts and still means affiliates have ‘players for life’. I think most of us understand we will probably be the exceptions however none of us like this hanging over our heads. We send the visitors to your casinos/sportsbooks and the work to convert them is up to you. None of us like our future income being totally dependent on how well you convert them.
1) Never been affiliate of 9am nor VIP
2) Not sent any players in the past, or got no active players under you
3) You have sent over 3 depositors in the last three monthsOK, well, I’ve been an affiliate of VipSports since the last time you were an affiliate manager there, Simon. Back when the stats were updated after 24 hours and you paid quarterly.
I’ve been sending you guys traffic and players for 4 years, but I’m fairly sure that I haven’t sent 1 new depositor per month over the last three months.
I’ve always been content with the Vip brand, their odds, what they offer players and I’d like to continue sending traffic your way. But I want to be paid for the sign ups I’ve already got regardless of whether you can convert my traffic going forward. I think I was up to 300 signups last time I checked…very, very few of them active, though.
If you wish to rip me off, then there’s nothing I can do about that. But I’d like you to be a man and tell me now, so I don’t have to waste my time when I revamp my sportsbetting sites.
