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The way I look at it is this: BH is a fact of life, like it or not. But if we have a Black Hatter who is prepared to put something back into the community then it’s something we would do well to pay attention to. “Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer” as the saying goes.
On the B4P front, exclusive deals are there for a lot of affiliates if they work closely with casino programs. Again, its part of affiliate life. I Take Dom’s point, but I feel it is better to find counter-promotions that suit your audience if you feel there is a threat.
While some of Itay’s erm, “marketing efforts” might seem dubious, and some of the casinos he promotes equally so, I admire the innovation behind B4P – and it’s nicely presented too.
Think of this:
The only really good and effective recourse against blackhatters we have is to ask the Programs to stop supporting them, when we have their aff tag from the site that is stealing from us or copying our content or whatever.
Now B4 acts as a buffer, only B4 will know where the clicks came from. The programs can’t see it anymore.
Blackhatters can now send them all the players they want via the tens of thousands spam sites they create and the programs will never know, beacuse B4 acts like a filter.
Itay is the founder of a secret BH community that hold regular meetings.
Do you really think they had no hand in the design of this?
Put something back in the community?
Palleeeese! This thing sacres the shit out of me!
I agree,
putting a BHer in any place where they can possibly recruit more …. or turn others … isn’t a good idea.
there are some lines that once drawn … can’t be driven back and forth across. I feel this is one of them.
times are hard. be foolish to make them harder. BH approaches should always be scorned though I understand the saying keep friends close and enemies closer.
sometimes however you’ve got to keep a distance to keep that knife from reaching your back.
Guys I just got back from the cruise and will be looking into this immediately.
Here’s the situation and what happened.
1. I personally had no idea Itay was a black hatter. Dom told me that recently after we announced Itay was going to moderate in the Newbie Area. He had told us he had studied up on black hatting as a means of fighting it. He also told us that his intention was to assist CAP members with detecting and combating the problems caused by black hatters, but at no time did I know HE was allegedly taking part in black hat activities. Had I known that I obviously never would have added him as a Mod.
2. We purchased Gambling Webmaster School and all its content. We wanted to add new articles to CAP 2.0 and this seemed like a good way to pick up content that was targeted at new gambling webmasters. One of the terms of the sale was that we would add in b4playing to CAP. This was an exchange for the domain and content. The moderator position is not a requirement and I am most likely going to remove Itay later this week as I dont think he’s a good fit based on whats come to light.
Give me a few days to sort through this and we will get it taken care of. I hate blackhatters as much as everyone else and dont want them around.
I think the b4playing is the much larger issue nut im sure you will see what we have discussed in you voyage
welcome back Prof:wavey:Ok I confronted Itay about being Black Hat and he denies it vehemently here is what he said:
Quote:BTW I did join the session on BH vs WH at the CAC… very funny people say I do BH since I actually went on the WH side lol but nevertheless can you prove you have no sister?and after working on him more he said:
Quote:We were 4 guys, two BH and 2 WH – while I do know BH (or at least some of it – I think that in order to protect yourself you have to know) and some of my best friends are BH and the biggest in the industry I don’t do it and B4Playing is clean but I think you don’t need to take hit from anyone over meThis is a real headache.
Who attended CAC and saw this discussion?
I don’t remember him saying anything other than intoducing himself and pushing b4.
I think he stated that he was there to represent both BH and WH.
I was really shell shocked there because I had no idea I was to appear at all until I saw the schedule. There it said I was moderator, so I figured fine, I’ll pass the mike around. When I got there Marc had a chair added on stage and insisted I go there and I reluctantly did because I didn’t want to make a scene. Then Marc said ethical considerations should not be part of the discussion. Things discussed were how to steal domains from people and such. I was appalled at the whole thing. I am still very pissed at Marc.
When I got home I had my server attacked, hacked, broken into and had malicious scripts embedded. I moved server and it happened again. Then I had google put a penalty on G&C and I don’t to this day know why. I found the site indexed in frames under different domains, I found spam containing a link to G&C in hundreds of blogs and thousands of scrapers. I turned all of this in and still nothing from google.
One of these guys went after me and yes – they can ruin your business.
All I know is that Itay hangs with the BH crowd at conferences.
Quote:Then Marc said ethical considerations should not be part of the discussion.Was Marc drinking the beer when he said this???? HTF can you discuss Black Hat WITHOUT bringing up ethical considerations?
Ok, so as far as you remember Itay was basically shilling for B4Playing and wasnt defending/promoting blackhat activities?
He admits to me he KNOWS black hatters but swears he has always been white hat.
To be honest I think most of us who go to conferences do bump into Black Hatters and hell I know a few of the absolute worst, but I dont do what they do and I have made that clear to them over the years despite hearing how much more I would earn personally if I was BH.
I am still going to probably pull Itay as a moderator just to be safe, but for now I cant see banning him as being appropriate.
This is what Itay says about himself here at CAP:
hey Guys,
Itay Paz here, I am in the industry for the last 5.5 years and since day 1 I was mistaken to be Itay from C,Pay. Well, I am Israeli but I am not him. I was a webmaster for the last 5 years and now I am working on a new innovative affiliation company.
My expertise is SEO (both white and black). I am one of the 2 founders of WIDS (Webmasters In the Dead Sea), a BH SEO exclusive gathering (which we are planning to do it again in the next few months).
I invite you guys to talk to me at the CAC, I will be there from the 2nd until the 6th.
Itay
The discussion in Amsterdam was mostly between mediadonis (on the BH panel) and an unknown BHer from the audience. No one else got much of a word in edgewise.
Why isn’t Itay discussing BH like he promised you? I gave him plenty of opportunity in the newbie section.
Probably his friends will kill him if he says anything useful.
He promised he would. Let’s see what he does.
I wish I had seen that thread at CAP. When did he post that?
sorry to hear Dom…. but your experience just proves .. what scum BHers .. are.
Black hat means more than questionable…. it means you’re willing to go the extra mile ….. and screw whoever you run over in the process.
these are not people with whom I care to share anything. And I very much believe Karma will get them in the end …. whether it be a cheating spouse or caught in their own web of BS and then losing their aff accounts….. what comes around goes around and they will pay for their BS ways . … though God knows how many inoccent people will be hurt in the process.
well because i made a few posts about why B4 is a bad deal, he wanted to chat on im.,.
He gave me the sister thing, nad said he sold his 350 sites so he wouldnt have anything bad behind the b4 corporation, he did however buy a new house with the cash lol..
does anyone see HOW BAD this b4 thing can be!
I asked him what legalities are in place if the B4corp falls into pieces (he is only working for them) how many involved?
I can see six months and it splits up, and whoever is left holding the controls wins.. not any of us (not that any of us would go into a CPA deal)
Uuuugh
Itay has been removed as a Moderator from the Newbie Area.
Hopefully he has “gone straight” since he sold his sites and got involved in B4Playing, if not we will find out soon enough.
If he doesn’t own b4, then who does?
