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then I just googled xyz casino to sign up. There are loads of people out there that do the same thing and the casino’s know it.
I always have to shake my head when I read something like this.
Apparently it never entered your mind that by following your path, the only person you have on your side is yourself.
by choosing thru an affiliate, even one that doesn’t care about their surfers … as long as the casinos don’t know that: they are going to be much less likely to screw you over.
in other words, choosing thru an affiliate gives you one more level to register a complaint with if something goes wrong.
Stupid wrote:Not really – you didnt click on a banner bacause you know that there is an affiliate behind it, so you just decided to be spiteful and not go through that affiliate. Most people have no idea what’s going on – shit, there is tons of people still getting stung by the Nigerian tricks…I’m not sure where in the world you get your “I’m spiteful and refuse to click on banners” idea from. That’s just stupid.
An alexa ranking of 41,000 is not that high for what I’m talking about.
Anyway, Dom has been in the business for a long time and he had a fair and balanced opinion that said both can be effective. You are totally bashing anything but being an affiliate, which I think shows little understanding for certain things.
Anyway, goodluck with what you’re doing.
Donkeystyle wrote:Dom has been in the business for a long time and he had…..She. I’m female. :hehe:
I also think Michael (the Wiz) could have held out for a lot more – but then he had been contracting out the ad sales and not sure how much he saved by cutting that out, and probably he doesn’t need to do ad updates anymore either… He had been selling ad space for along time, he just consolidated it now. I used to buy ad space from him and miss it.
Whatever dude – it makes no sence to see a casino banner, and then go search on Google for it?!? (if you were smarter you’d just put “.com” behind the name and it will save you the search 😮 ) nobody does that but a hand full of affiliates.
Either way, I will have a discreete pop-up just so when you leave my website to search on Google – Gotcha!
40K on Alexa is a lot for gambling website – maybe no more than 10 websites would have nubers lower than that, it’s just that WoOdds is more offline oriented, and not much SE traffic – mostly links…
I am telling you that if you get 10,000 good visitors to your gambling website and you sell all ads for $50K/month total – big mistake!BIG MISTAKE!
Don’t Ask If You Don’t Want to Know!:drunk2:
Sorry Dom.
Thanks Stupid. I’ll keep your advice in mind.
Hmmmmmmm…instinct tells me that “donkeystyle” may very well be Michael Bluejay of Wizard of Odds. Am I right, donkey?
Whoever this person may be, asked about “auctioning” advertising and also seems to know quite a bit of info relating to the Wiz. The Wiz is the only site I know of that has attempted this advertising auction thing. I explained to Michael Bluejay previously that I think this is a rather ridiculous way to sell advertising and I stand by that opinion. A negotiated deal will always be a win-win for both parties. All auctioning will do is take the control of the seller out of his own hands. Bad idea all the way around.
For anyone with a website I’d always suggest going with a rev-share model or hybrid deal. I know…coming from me, this may sound a bit out of character. :p
Truth is there are VERY few sites where paid media makes sense. Casinomeister and Wiz are obvious examples, due to the focus of their sites. Because of the bonuses involved with GoneGambling, it would be completely impractical to get hooked up in aff deals.
From what I’ve seen, those affiliates who work hard to produce quality will always do far better staying within the affiliate arena.
Anyway, don’t spend that $900 all in one place. That would almost make my car payment for the month.
Is there a reason you felt it important to be so rude to mrdh? We all started somewhere. Encouragement instead of the snide attitude would have been a bit nicer.
I agree that general casino branding is pretty saturated. What I’m talking about is a little more specific.
I could not disagree strongly enough on this. Outside of a few casino brands–BoDog, 888 and Golden Palace, branding (particularly in North America) has been nonexistent. The UK has a bit of an edge in branding, due to brands like Will Hill and Ladbrokes, as well as their approval of offline casino advertising. It’s a bit trickier here in North America. Thankfully, casinos are finally beginning to wake up to the fact that they will have to spend some of their resources on building brand recognition.
The wizzard of odds.com site sold advertising to bodog for around $15,000 a month. The alexa rank of the site is not high at all and the traffic is not high either. There absolutely is a value to displaying an ad even if you don’t get clickthroughs. Could he make more than $15k a month through an affiliate deal? Maybe, but now he has a contract locked in.
The smug last line of this paragraph speaks volumes. If this indeed is your approach to advertising, you’ll be burning your advertising bridges in no-time flat. Sure, branding is good, but casinos want acquisitions. If you’re not delivering, you’ve lost an advertiser. And let me remind you, this is a VERY small industry. Buyers talk and once you’ve burned a few, you’re gonna be in for a VERY rough road.
Big surprise…I just had a look at gamblingads.com, the site referenced in this thread by “donkeystyle.” Sure enough, it’s Michael Bluejay.
Why not just be a bit more up front, MB???
A little in defense of the affiliate program… After costs, at 25% a microgaming casino is lucky to make 15c on every $1, and that reduces to 5c at 35%. Affiliates make more money than the casino – ask any operator
the branding is a spin off and a benefit of advertising no matter how you look at it – we can analyze till we are blue in the face on this one!Running an affiliate program is not cheap and the casino does not make piles of loot – this is a misconception. That said, the casino relies on volumes of affiliates – I would rather have 20 smaller affiliates who I can work with and help build up, who bring in 1 or 2 players each, than one affiliate that brings in 30-40 players (more expensive too) – of course having all the bigger affiliates really helps!
Also – some of us (reputable programs) will set cookies to award the affiliate for type-in traffic if the player visited an affiliate site prior to coming back as type in – I set this up when at referback (have no idea if the rule is still in place). The idea being that the last affiliate (seen as the person that convinced the player and introduced them to our product) would be awarded even if the player did not become a player immediately – VERY advantageous for the affiliate. It would be interesting to see which programs actually award affiliates for type-in traffic and for how long the cookies are set.
A well balanced association works well for both parties – those wanting to make a quick buck fall out just as fast. You need to decide if you want to stay in this industry for life – if so, great – we will go a long way and make each other very happy
“I am telling you that if you get 10,000 good visitors to your gambling website and you sell all ads for $50K/month total – big mistake!BIG MISTAKE!”
Do you mean 10,000 visitors a day, or a month?
Foots27 wrote:“I am telling you that if you get 10,000 good visitors to your gambling website and you sell all ads for $50K/month total – big mistake!BIG MISTAKE!”Do you mean 10,000 visitors a day, or a month?
He must mean a day to get to his $50k a month figure.
No, I’m not MB. All I did was look at the gamblingads.com page. I’ve never said I think auctioning your ad space is a good idea. My name is Sean, not Michael.
This is obvioulsy an affiliate site, so opinion will lean that way. I’ve noticed some pretty important people on this board have had no comment. Interesting.
I think I may try a few media buys and a few aff deals.
Oh, I was talking about 10,000 visitors a month…If you get 10,000 visitors a day – just go ahead and hang up your SEO hat and go drink Margaritas on your private island :cheers:
10,000 visitors a month would convert to at least 100 new players, at least! If it’s good SE traffic – 500 players possible…Now, even if you take CPA (which I wouldnt with most casinos) you’d get about $300/player – you do the math.
$15K to dedicate my entire site to one program?!? That’s just crazy…
Donkeystyle wrote:Have any of you tried it? Here’s what I’ve figured out. Affiliate programs are awesome for the casino, bad for the affiliate. I’m not in the exact same sector of this business as most of you, so I don’t mind sharing this. If I thought you were all competitors of mine, I honestly would not talk about this subject.
I totally disagreeDonkeystyle wrote:Say you have a banner for XYZ casino on your site. You get 10,000 unique visitors a month. You have some terrible click through rate and you make a few hundred dollars.
With less than 5,000 uniques you can earn much more than any program will ever will pay for such a small amount of traffic.Donkeystyle wrote:Now, from the casino’s perspective. They get to keep their name in front of a targetted audience. What if your visitors see the ads, XYZ Casino is now etched in their minds, then a week later they decide to key XYZ Casino directly into the browser. You get no credit. You just advertised XYZ Casino for free.Now, the casino will tell you “we’re partners, if we don’t get click throughs, we don’t make money, so how can we pay you? The affiliate program is only fair. You get paid when we get paid.”
That’s only fair, after all.. the more i show the banner, the more i can potentially earnDonkeystyle wrote:Why is it my job to make sure your terd banner or casino gets clickthroughs? I bring a targeted audience of 10,000, it’s your problem (the casino) to sell to the player. Of course, the casinos have everyone fooled into thinking we (the webmasters) are responsible for getting people to sign up. They’re no dummies, but it seems most people running affiliates are dummies.
1- It’s your job because you wanted it to be. No aff program i know about point guns into people’s head to force them to join.2 – No one fooled me, my job is to get targeted traffic to my sites.. tempt it to join a casino using the marketing materials and tools i have. Once the surfer has clicked and went to the casino’s site.. it’s up the the casino to make him sign.. no one can deny that.. it’s so logical and obvious. you must be a **** ass to think other wise.
3 – if i can’t convert from the targeted 10,000 .. it’s my problem.. means i promote the wrong programs. I can assure you that the 10,000 will convert very differently on various programs.
4 – What about retention? Do you really think someone is stupid enough to believe he might be responsible to keep the player depositing?
5 – FYI, Commissions per sale/client method was not invented by any online marketing program.. they are older than the internet.
6 – It is my job because I choose it to be.
Donkeystyle wrote:This is advertising 101. They get free advertising. For the small amount of people who actually click through the ad, you’ll get paid. For all the other benefit of keeping an ad in someone’s face, you get ZERO. That’s bullchit. Of course, the casino’s have most people fooled. Keeping your name (XYZ Casino) in front of people is BASIC advertising principle.Do you think Coke only pays for their SuperBowl advertisement based on how many Cokes they sell as a result? Of course not, and mainly because measuring the effect of an ad is impossible to do (that goes for casino banner ads too).
I agree, but then again.. maybe the surfer saw the casino ad several times before visiting my sites and finally in my site he clicked it and earned me money? can you denay this happens?Donkeystyle wrote:I’m not really posing this as a question or opinion. I know it to be true. If you google gambling ads, it won’t take to long to see one particular site auctioned their ad space to Bodog for about $15,000 a month. No affiliate bull, just straight advertising.In my own experience, I have a “feature” that is pretty new and innovative for the business. I spoke to about 10 casino’s about buying ad space for the idea. Just about everyone of them said “How about you sign up for our affiliate program and we’ll pay you based on how many sign-ups we get.” I said “how about you go jump off a bridge.”
About 5 of them have said, “ok, how much do you want?” Now I’ve got about 5 sites bidding for ADVERTISING space, not this affiliate program bullchit.
Now, having said that, you can’t just go throw up some slot machine reviews, get 10 visitors a day and demand $1,000 a month in advertising fees.
But, in general, everyone should be working towards dropping the affiliate deals and moving towards straight advertising.
I wish you all the best with your new system. I am sure it will do well for you.If you are looking for a steady income, this is a great way to feel secure as long as you can drive high traffic volumes..
How will you get these traffic volumes without “slot machines review” or any other “review”?
Why to underestimate the value of textual content?Donkeystyle wrote:I’d love to hear discussion on the matter. If you have a thought, please reply. As you can tell, I obviously think the entire affiliate deal is a scam.Here’s another example in the poker business (a business I do have experience). Check out 2+2 publishings page. They are probably the biggest forum in the business. Do they do the hundreds of affiliate deals the poker sites have? Nope, ask them for their advertising rates. $22,000 a month for the top banner, straight cash homey, shove the affiliate deal you know where.
I have told my opinion, tried to be short and with no offense {because of my english}
I must mention i don’t really like the way you have presented it. Even though affiliate programs might not be perfect they are based on a fair and reasonable logical model that has been working before there was the internet.
Why treat them so aggressively and take the wind out of people’s sail?
There are many people who are willing to work hard and earn some money via internet marketing. Posting your stance in such a way that will discourage them.. is it fair?I must agree with Dom.. the earning potential when considering a long term partnership pays much more using the aff program.. and the more targeted traffic you have.. the more it grows.
>>Oh, I was talking about 10,000 visitors a month…If you get 10,000 visitors a day – just go ahead and hang up your SEO hat and go drink Margaritas on your private island :cheers:
>>10,000 visitors a month would convert to at least 100 new players, at least! If it’s good SE traffic – 500 players possible…Now, even if you take CPA (which I wouldnt with most casinos) you’d get about $300/player – you do the math.
Alright, I’m doing some math here. Let’s say it converted to 200 players a month at $300/player. That’s $60,000 a month.
Question, would this be from the combination of all programs promoted on a site that gets 10,000 uniques a month? Or from just one program?
I have a sports betting info site, gets great search engine traffic, has great rankings, and during football season receives 152,000 uniques a month for 6 months, then goes dead after the Super Bowl and heats up again in August during preseason, and the regular season in Sept, Oct, etc…
I’ve been hesitant to put up sportsbook and casino ads for all these years because I’ve been a chicken when it comes to the legal gray areas.
How much money am I throwing away?
Really, how much?
I know different sites get different quality of traffic, etc. I do no advertising, my traffic is all organic search engine traffic and repeat visitors. Excellent rankings for some top keywords in the industry.
Thanks in advance for your input.
MD – “my new idea”? You can’t be serious. How do you think magazines work? The top 5 competitors in the sector i’m looking at all take paid advertising. You look at things as “your problem.” I look at it as I bring traffic, someone else can pay me to get in front of it. There are tons and tons of sites that work that way. For some reason you think affiliates are the only way. There are several very experienced people that would tell you other wise.
Stupid- you math does work out to $30,000 a month. I don’t agree with you numbers though. Yes, if you bring 10,000 brand new visitors every month, you may make a decent amount. Advertising will pay you for bringing back those same 10,000 people each time. Big difference. Honest question, how long have you been in this business?
Let me explain 2 reasons your numbers are astronomically off. Obviously, you’ve never gotten 100 players in a month, so I’m not sure why you sound so sure of yourself.
First, most places have a tiered payout structure. You may get $300 per player at the 100 player mark, but it actually works like this.
first 20 people = $100
next 30 people = $150
next 50 people = $200That comes out to $16,500, a far cry from the $30,000 you wanted me to “do the math” on.
Also, clickthrough rates are usually very, very low. Even at 1% CTR, that doesn’t mean 1% will sign up or that 1% will sign up and play.
Your numbers are just off, WAY off.
