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eclipse wrote:A friend of mine, who worked in one of casino affiliate programs, told me that casino affiliate programs could easily screw affiliates. For example they can remove high roller players form affiliate account, can stop counting stats for o period of time, etc.
Do You think it’s possible and some aff programs’re doing it ?
No its not possible … they are all honest and would never steal a penny
from anybody.
:dozing:
hehe funny, they are all angels :highflyer
Absolutely. Totally reliable, dependable and fiercely honest to the last.
(Do you think he’s getting the sarcasm here yet…)
aleph wrote:No its not possible … they are all honest and would never steal a pennyfrom anybody.
:dozing:
Anak aleph
eclipse,
Just in case you didn’t get the sarcasm.. Yes, they can.. and since they can.. you can obviously expect that under some circumstances they will probably will.I guess there is a degree of dishonesty that is why we are constantly trying to weed out the duds and support the programs that are considered to be honest by most of us.
By the way, if you have a program doing the counting you can program whatever you want. You could easily just implement a rule such as – only count 85% of the traffic that is coming in. Just an example, it´d have to be more subtle including ip targeting etc. but again auditing can catch those things and audits do take place. Consult the APCW for more info.
One more thing, don´t put all your eggs in one basket. Try to get feedback from people you refer so that you may be able to do a little auditing yourself;)Goldfinger wrote:Consult the APCW for more info.
One more thing, don´t put all your eggs in one baskets. Try to get feedback from people you refer so that you may be able to do a little auditing yourself;)Yes, all of the above.
If you suspect any specific program of doing this, just get a few of your friends to sign up under you (give ’em 50 bucks if you have to) and see if the stats add up.
The main problem here is whales, the removal of whales is too hard to prove unless you want to sacrifice huge amounts of money.
I think it requires a level of “intuition”. You kind of get to know which one’s play fair and which ones might/might not. Things to watch for are how they treat players, how they respond to criticism and other tidbits that crop up from time to time…hard to prove but you kind of get a good feel as to how they view money vs. relationships
I like to think that most around these parts play it fair.
Webmaster intuition about this industry can be fairly reliable once they have been in the business a few years and seen many programs through good and bad times.
Auditing, however, is all together different. It is the only way to get some sort of tangible evidence that supports or refutes our intuitive beliefs. Auditing can exposing loopholes and problems with player tracking, whether accidental or deliberate. It can reveal weaknesses in the player experience, such as software installations, payment processing, and customer service. Auditing is an ongoing process, though.
A bad audit may not mean a program is dishonest. Honest programs can have issues which may not reflect their integrity whatsoever. Likewise, a good audit may not mean a program is clean. There are many different ways a dishonest program can attempt to divert monies away from webmasters, and it’s only be continually testing programs that we will eventually catch them… and we will.
Many program understand the importance of APCW membership. Some others, for whatever reasons, have chosen not to support our efforts and become members. Individual webmasters would really need to ask these non-members programs why they have chosen not to participate with us, especially given the track record the APCW has had over our three year history.
Of cource they can… not legally though but its almost impossible for us to prove it… they set the rules…:toidy:
Hi,
I have been checking into some non-gambling niches and was surprised to find out that of the niches I checked, nearly all of them have a 3rd party tracking system which for instance porn, also has their 3rd party system set up so that payments are made by that 3rd party (http://www.ccbill.com for instance) so unless this reputable company were to choose to risk its reputation … it seems to me that it would be unlikely there’d be a chance for getting cheated.
while I don’t have the know-how, I cannot help but wonder if such a system would be profitable to set up for gambling … though I’d doubt it would be welcomed by programs which have already worked hard to establish a good reputation … I think it would be a great incentive to newcomers or those struggling to overcome a bad reputation … to choose since it takes a lot of the insecurity of getting cheated out of the picture thus making participating programs much more attractive than those not.
just a thought.
bb1, that would be ideal.
CCbill is big for it´s basket and processing solutions. They cover the whole value chain. Sourcing, ordering etc. but charge quite hefty fees. Part of the software is an affiliate component. It´s mainly targeted at folks who provide original content (porn) or sell physical products, i.e. it facilitates dealing with end users.
In our industry you just need the affiliate side of things and most programs have established their “in house” tracking already and will be reluctant to switch.
bb1webs wrote:wonder if such a system would be profitable to set up for gambling
just a thought.I have always thought this would be a good idea. It would be no different than any other affiliate program, except it would market for all the honest casinos, poker rooms and sports books instead of just a select few. Once it got big enough the program would have incredible buying power and could negotiate some great deals and pass some of that on to us affiliates. And I bet casinos, poker rooms ect.. would be begging for the program to take them on board. This will eventually done by the right person who has the programming skills and the business savvy to put it all together, and I for one would have no qualms switching if it was owned and operated by someone like Integrity who although I have never met personally, I know he is as straight as they come and with the kind of money in this business, all I can say is it would be a good feeling going to bed at night knowing you are getting paid for ALL your efforts.
And I bet it would hit the ground running if someone like integrity put it together because he would have no problem recruiting some of the top dogs in this industry. However, there are many many variables and things that would need to be worked out, and I am not so sure a top affiliate that has been with a program for years would be willing to risk all those existing players to do such a switch. But nevertheless, there is definitely something here. When I first started out about a year ago, if there was such a program in place that marketed for all the major honest online gambling sites, it would have been a no brainer to go with them instead of having 50 seperate affiliate accounts. Imagine how nice it would be to log into one account to get all your links, banners, updates on new promotions and the list goes a mile long for the benefits it would give affiliates. Not to mention the peace of mind knowing not only do I have the best 5star gambling sites to market that players won’t have issues with, but also that there is no funny business going on. I always wonder from time to time how much money I have really made in this business without the skimming, compared to what I have been paid. But that I will never know I guess.
As far as this being profitable for the person who eventually puts it together, lets just say they will make more money than all the top 10 affiliates combined in due time. Imagine from a casinos standpoint that is not on board, lets assume this program is already set up and has plenty of sucessfull affiliates. Now how appealing would that be to a casino or poker room that needs to pick up their marketing. They could instantly have hundreds, maybe thousands of affiliates promoting them by coming on board. I may not be able to articulate all this correctly, but I can see the light and its big. It would take someone very very smart to put it all together, but we are talking millions to whoever is smart enough to make it happen.
This got me thinking about a couple a years ago….
I was talking to a local business man friend of mine. We had some great and original ideas to really be able to promote some casinos/poker rooms. We were getting all the ideas together, then he learned that the programs track things themselves. He needed a work around to them doing all the tracking, but none could be figured out. Sure you can figure out how many clicks you get, and maybe even downloads, but not actual earnings. He just laughed and said well I thought it was a good idea, he would have no part in it. I proved my earnings to him, they where(are) rather good. But there was no way this guy was going to trust there tracking, with no way to audit it independently.
His matter-a-factness really got me thinking about the tracking. It also got me thinking about how one day the casino websites might be gone, and I will just be out of luck, and money. It made me happy to see some of the companies going public, but the U.S. government has proven what an illusion that is. So I figure it is a gravy train best not to count on too much.
