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I stand buy my post, been screwed to often on pre-buys an Classic if you have not then I am happy for you but I think the majority of people who did CPA’s on this board as well as CPM’s have really got the screw.
Tell me folks, am I right or wrong?
Brian
I whole heartedly agree IslandMaan. CPA and CPM is a no win proposition for at least one of the parties involved in the deal. Thats not the way I like to do business.
I’m definitely with the Professor and Islandmaan.
It’s a lose-lose situation many times over. Someone tends to lose.
If you got screwed by any business deal you made, you just did bad business and used poor judgement. I’m not saying any kind of deal is good or bad, only that its not the deal that is the problem. Deals are entirely a people issue, not structure issue. Two honest people can structure all sorts of elaborate deals. One honest person and one crook will never be able to stucture anything that isn’t poisonous.
Personally I have no clue what this pre-paid CPA stuff is supposed to accomplish. Either pay for advertising or pay CPA, mixing the two is peculiar because they aren’t related concepts. But still these deals aren’t the problem, it is the choice of business partner in the deal.
In other words, if honorable people did smart business with other honorable people, all of them would make more money and all aspects of the business would be stronger. But if you make deals with sleazebags, what do you expect? A kiss on the lips when they are done with you? Don’t blame a deal structure because you had the poor judgment to work with a sleazebag.
I agree 100% with Islandmaan and the Professor on this issue. I will never do CPA’s now or in the future.
My viewpoint:
CPA can be a very good move if you are certain that the tracking is good and of course if the offer is good. But make sure the tracking works properly.
Prepaid CPA is a two-edged sword. If you’re an operator, you must be sure of who you are dealing with – I’ve heard reports of people getting paid up front and not delivering a single player. If you’re a webmaster, and honest, you could get screwed if for some strange reason players are not registering… make sure the tracking works properly – I screwed myself in one instance where I had to deliver a measly 10 players… which took a year… and one other one where I got paid half up front – still took six months, but I had crossed the midway point so I gave them the extra and told them to keep the rest of the payment.
Did I mention to make sure the tracking works properly?
CPM – another two-edged sword. Good for the operator if the webmaster is honest and does not inflate traffic by purchasing cheap hits – but beware, even honest webmasters can’t always prevent spiders from registering a view (I had to write special scripts to exclude spiders from the count). Potentially bad for the webmaster if the stats which are being used are on the operator’s side.
I think it’s very important to make sure the tracking works properly – I should have mentioned that earlier.
Do I accept CPA now? Yes… but only when I am sure the tracking is accurate. And only under rare circumstances because many of the offers being made to me are trash… and I try to stay away from prepay because if I’m not happy, I can drop it any time I like.
Do I do CPM now? No… not that I wouldn’t, but I find it to be a major pain in the butt when a casino comes back to me and says we didn’t get value for our impressions… now I charge a monthly fee and you get what you get. Hopefully you make money, but I no longer guarantee things as I did in the past because one big winner would be enough to screw me big time.
Make sure the tracking works properly.
I am happiest on percentage, but when I do anything else it is this:
now I charge a monthly fee and you get what you get.
Keeps things on an even keel.
if honorable people did smart business with other honorable people, all of them would make more money and all aspects of the business would be stronger. But if you make deals with sleazebags, what do you expect? A kiss on the lips when they are done with you? Don’t blame a deal structure because you had the poor judgment to work with a sleazebag.
that’s true.
And if you are unsure about who you are dealing with; then the smart move is not to put yourself too far out on the limb.
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but there is another issue here, and one I was faced with not too long ago.
Somewhere along the line, the word has to be spread who the sleazbags are; or else we all find out the hard way.
But where do you draw the line? What bothered me was not the money I was out; but rather the conflict of
1. – if I don’t say something soon, friends might fall into the same trap.
2. – if I say something and then the person comes thru; I’ve trashed their reputation over something that if it had been JUST the money I had risked and apparently lost; I’d not have done it. But I guarantee you it would feel a hell of a lot worse to come in here and read a few days later that the same person I could have warned everyone about; had by then taken all these other people that are friends or at the very least; people that had never done me wrong as opposed to this person with whom I have the conflict.
Most all the bad hassle could be avoided if communication stays good. Even if the conversation doesn’t. But when you can no longer get response then you must assume that is the end of it; as far as the other party is concerned. Therefore you must then act accordingly (which each separate incident will be different in most cases, so you’ll consider different actions of course)
Its a tough place to be and I think you have much more self control than me because I know I’d have been yelling bloody murder by now.
But I guarantee you it would feel a hell of a lot worse to come in here and read a few days later that the same person I could have warned everyone about; had by then taken all these other people that are friends or at the very least; people that had never done me wrong as opposed to this person with whom I have the conflict.
The person in question DID get someone else from CAP. The new victim does not want to post publicly but will pursue legal venues.
CPA is inherently flawed and regardless of the wonderfulness and integrity of the parties involved, one of them loses by definition.
CPA is simply cost per acquisition. You can acquire players via a variety of means that cost differently. There is no reason at all to expect that every acquisiton will cost the same, or even have similar structures. A television commercial on 60 Minutes might yield X customers one week, and 3X the next week due to a more popular segment being aired. No one “loses” when this happens.
Similarly no one “loses” if a casino pays John 35% or $300 CPA, but will only pay Mary 20% or $100 CPA.
This business is just a negotiation. Deals don’t have winners and losers. They just have different terms, based on many factors including the people’s abbility to negotiate.
The actual deal has nothing to do with it.
If the player plays more than the CPA paid, the casino wins and the aff loses.
If the player plays less than the CPA paid, the aff wins and the casino loses.
It’s a gamble. One of the two is bound to lose. It is the nature of the game.
Very well said Dom!
“If the player plays more than the CPA paid, the casino wins and the aff loses.
If the player plays less than the CPA paid, the aff wins and the casino loses.”That’s just anti-mathematical arm-waving. Any sensible person factors that into the CPA calculation. It makes no difference at all whether one person plays a lot, or wins a lot, or whatever.
Every casino knows *exactly* what an average player is worth. They know exactly what an average player from one type of venue is worth compared to another — for instance, a person clicking through from domain1.com might be worth $X on average while players clicking from domain2.com might be worth $Y on average. Which means casinos might gladly pay domain1 $1000 per acquisition while paying domain2 $55.
It should be obvious that no one “loses”, even if you only deliver (or get) one player in your entire life.
