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Did you get a contract?
I’m not posting to give my opinion on whether or not you should expose this flake, Dean. That’s entirely up to you.
Reading about your experience, as well as the similar experiences of others, leaves me feeling very angry about the minority of dirty webmasters who will do anything to make a quick buck, and whose lack of integrity contaminates the pond for the majority of us.
Fergie wrote:Reading about your experience, as well as the similar experiences of others, leaves me feeling very angry about the minority of dirty webmasters who will do anything to make a quick buck, and whose lack of integrity contaminates the pond for the majority of us.I agree with the above.
Dean,
I don’t know if exposing him here would be appropriate as it seems people may turn on you later for it, or as you’ve said you might end up looking like the bad guy. But one good reason to expose him would be to keep others from getting the same shaft.I would have to agree with the sentiments of previous posters regarding this issue. None of us enjoy being taking for a ride, but more times than not going public with it might not be the best resolution.
From the legal standpoint Pucks question about the contract is very valid – was an insertion order placed? Have you documented previous attempts to resolve the issue?
If all else fails as a last resort I would recommend that you take your dispute to the free for all area here at CAP, with evidence in hand and have at them.
Best of luck.
Dean please PM about this as I want to ensure we are not helping to enable this person to screw others.
dean wrote:this person had or has decent placements in the search engines and i was to pay him $6,000 per week which was the approximate estimate for the number of members he would send me by giving me maximum exposure across his networkGod … I HATE flakey people! There is just no reason for it. If you have something to say to someone … just say it. Get it out in the open, discuss it, resolve it, get it over and done with and move on.
Not answering e-mails and avoiding dealing with the issue is immature, unethical, unprofessional and just plain IGNORANT! Not to mention that playing games is not going to make an issue go away. It will continue to hang over your head until ultimately you’re going to have deal with it anyway.
This whole scenario sounds rather strange. ? ?
While he has definitely screwed you … it would seem he is also screwing himself. :confused:
Six thousand dollars a week seems like a lot of money to blow off.
If all he has to do is give you maximum exposure across his network and it will net him an additional $6000 each and every week … it doesn’t make any sense that he would not follow through.
I would continue to try to resolve this matter to the satisfaction of both parties. ( I realize that is a bit difficult when the other party is a complete jack ass. )
Try to find out why it is that the offer of $6000 a week is not enough to lite a fire under his flakey ass.
Hell, for an additional $26,000 a month most of us would do just about anything !
Need a private dancer ? :rollover:
leaves me feeling very angry about the minority of dirty webmasters who will do anything to make a quick buck, and whose lack of integrity contaminates the pond for the majority of us.
This is why I am always in favor of exposing such things.
Everyone suffers the consequences of such behavior – not just the person who lost money.
We are always quick to expose programs, even on shaky evidence. We need to be fair across the board and expose all who cheat/steal/defraud in this business.
It needs to be cleaned up all the way, not selectively. Casinos cheating players, players cheating casinos, programs cheating affiliates and affiliates cheating programs – it should all be exposed if we want a clean and productive working environment.
If this will be swept under the carpet like other items have before, at least Dean should be responding to private inquiries about who has done this. He has more freedom now than other affiliate managers in the same boat have had previously – he isn’t running a program anymore and doesn’t have to worry about backlash on that level.
What an embarassment to not have these things dealt with! 😡
I agree with most of the above. However find it startling how many people are ready to jump on their fellow affiliate before hearing both sides to the story.
While he has definitely screwed you … it would seem he is also screwing himself.
Heck, we don’t even know his/her name.
If I was that affiliate, I would certainly take this opportunity to explain myself.
There may well be another side to the story – maybe exposure was given and Dean didn’t notice it or something.
Just sweeping it under the carpet isn’t going to help anyone.
LasVegasLady wrote:Hell, for an additional $26,000 a month most of us would do just about anything !Need a private dancer ? :rollover:
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
I have been screwed so many times by people I have known liked and trusted in this business. Most of the time it is business people who get themselves in financial problems and then make deals they cannot come close to fulfulling. Then they either go out of business or blame my site for not converting.
Here is my simple rule I live by and recommend, do not pre-pay for anything unless it is a well established advertising type biz and even then never put out large sums, it is too much of a temptation.
Don’t mean to sound so negative but as this biz gets tougher and tougher we will see more desperate situations.
Brian
thanks for your feedback everyone
its not my style to take things public and therefore will still debate it with myself as what to do. i would of course like to resolve it privately but its a little hard when i am being ignored. i will still ponder the situation and shoot this fellow one more email.
the contract we have is an email trail which is very black and white , regardless i m still an old school businessman who would like to believe in peoples integrity and will do business with a handshake so to speak – i have all the proof i need and he has an exact copy of the same proof i have.
as for being both sides of the story i really dont know what the other side could possibly be , i gave him $6000 for a supposed weekly deal , he never put up any additional links other than what he had as an affilaite through our program despite saying we would be plastered all over his sites. he admited and apologized to me 3 or 4 months ago when he returned $2000 of this ( i had to chase this up too btw ). i just dont see what i have done wrong , i have simply been sitting here waiting for him to send me traffic.
professor i will pm you shortly
cheers
dean
Quote:Here is my simple rule I live by and recommend, do not pre-pay for anything unless it is a well established advertising type biz and even then never put out large sums, it is too much of a temptation.Don’t mean to sound so negative but as this biz gets tougher and tougher we will see more desperate situations.
Agree with this 100%… this is the rule that we generally follow. Unless we have a working history we simply don’t pre-pay. Depending on the situation we can work out flexible payment terms but no pre-pay.
Been burned in the past as well… these individuals who don’t hold up their end of the deal hurt us all.
islandmaan wrote:I have been screwed so many times by people I have known liked and trusted in this business. Most of the time it is business people who get themselves in financial problems and then make deals they cannot come close to fulfulling. Then they either go out of business or blame my site for not converting.Here is my simple rule I live by and recommend, do not pre-pay for anything unless it is a well established advertising type biz and even then never put out large sums, it is too much of a temptation.
Don’t mean to sound so negative but as this biz gets tougher and tougher we will see more desperate situations.
Brian
i agree 100% i learned the hard way – we placed about $100,000 of prepaid deals in december 2003 and are still owed $80,000 of it, despite pre qualifying everyone of these people on how much traffic they could send and how long it would take to fill the order they all screwed us.
the sad thing is they are still advertising people today and still writing new business yet have not filled our orders – and yes we have written signed contracts for all of them but none of them care.
i wont make the same mistakes again thats for sure.
There is nothing wrong with prepaying and it is a serious error to suggest that. There is only bad business practices. Prepaying includes a calculation on both sides that there is a possibility that either side will act dishonorably; or die; or deliver poor performance; or deliver out of the box better performance than anyone would have guessed; etc. These things are part of the calculation in making the deal (unless you are a horrid business person and don’t think any of this is possible).
People can get screwed by post-paying, or pre-paying, or even pay as you go. Non-news flash here: unscrupulous people can figure out a way to be unscrupulous regardless of the payment scenario.
Allegedly bad affiliates should be pointed out with the same criteria that allegedly bad casinos are. But there is a problem here. Posts similar to the first one here could be used as a means of extortion in a business negotiation between parties, particularly if the paper trail is not as clear as it may be here. I would hope people in the future would either name names, or not. These general posts of major problems help no one. Even if it pressures one party to behave in the specific situation, it does nothing to help others in the future avoid the same problem.
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Mildly off-topic, I’m not understanding how a manager can be personally owed $4000 by an affiliate. Wouldn’t this be a debt owed the casino group?
