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vd752 wrote:what is the part(%) of players and casino profit that come from a WEBMASTER affiliate program?
Yes, I really want to know what is the answer to this for popular names.
A part of the money is lost between spywares redirecting our commissions (or landing ads on our sites), rips offs and tracking problems. I am sure in a perfect world we all would be doing DOUBLE of what we do normally without changing anything.
As for SE, yes, traffic is very very low. As a matter of example, I am still first for “internet gambling guide” at Google and I rarely receive hits. And I was in the top five before for “internet gambling” at Google, and I was receiving maybe one hit a day. Now I am in fourth page and I really don’t care because this keyphrase was not worth the investment in time.
I am sure a good part of the money is done without portals, with direct leads. Don’t forget, the affiliate marketign is only one marketing tactics big online casinos uses (the most profitable maybe). As for small ones, I think they all start with the affiliate program and some sort of small investment via email marketing.
What I regret is that we never see overall financial results of online casinos. I would be really interested to know numbers for some online casinos (I already asked to some managers but they never wanted to give numbers – sure -). One thing I know is that REAL big players are spending $300,000.00 per month in online casinos (one player). But they are very rare. And I am not sure if affiliate programs/casinos would be willing to pay the affiliate (if any) $100,000 per month for only one player. I am sure there are arrangements made by online casinos. But that’s my opinion!
“As for SE, yes, traffic is very very low. As a matter of example, I am still first for “internet gambling guide” at Google and I rarely receive hits. And I was in the top five before for “internet gambling” at Google, and I was receiving maybe one hit a day.”
That’s not because search engine traffic is low. It’s because the terms aren’t very useful, just like “online gambling” isn’t much of a term. Break it down even more generic to “gambling” or even “gamble”. People don’t normally search that generic. People don’t want to “gamble”. They want to play blackjack or poker or slots or bingo or whatever. Some generic terms are huge, like bingo or poker, but they are actually a whole lot more specific than “online gambling”.
The value in ranking well for the generic term is more in having a leg up for all the different variations that people type in.
Traffic’s not just about the number of searches either. I used to bid on ‘online gambling’ on Adwords, and the click-through ratio was always abysmal. (Less than 1%). I was much better off with other terms and phrases that got much less searches but much higher click through rates, sometimes as high as 10% or more.
Point being that even if a term does get a lot of searches, it might not result in a lot of traffic.
Randy,
This is a very interesting subject.
I have been involved in promoting online gambling since 1997, first as a webmaster and now as an affiliate manager.
I have always maintained that the overall online gambling market is much smaller than most people believe. There are many “old time” casinos like Winward that have been online since the 1990’s that are making very good money … but you may have noticed that many of the newer casinos are struggling to survive and many have have already gone out of business.
Even in the “easy money” days of 1998-2000, only highly targeted gambling traffic converted for online casinos. That’s because even though there are tens of millions of people surfing the Web every day, only a miniscule percentage of them are willing to bet real money and lose hundreds or thousands of dollars per month at at an online casino. We all know that “whales” are the key to making money in the casino business, and there are only a few of them to go around. So even though the overall online gambling pie bets bigger every year, there are more and more casinos and webmasters trying to get a slice of it.
The bottom line is that there are lots of people making lots of money in the online gambling industry, but it never was and never will be the “easy money” business that some people have promoted it to be.
Classics wrote:That’s not because search engine traffic is low. It’s because the terms aren’t very useful, just like “online gambling” isn’t much of a term. Break it down even more generic to “gambling” or even “gamble”. People don’t normally search that generic. People don’t want to “gamble”. They want to play blackjack or poker or slots or bingo or whatever. Some generic terms are huge, like bingo or poker, but they are actually a whole lot more specific than “online gambling”.Yes, I know that highly targeted searched are much more interesting. But I do maintain, search engine traffic in this sector is very low in term of quantities.
I have other sites in other sectors and it is relatively “easy” (when you are an experienced webmaster and constantly work on your sites) to score 500-1000 unique visitors a day from Google. I am very far from this with my online gambling sites.
Quote:So even though the overall online gambling pie bets bigger every year, there are more and more casinos and webmasters trying to get a slice of it.And lots who quit the business… Too much online casinos increases the cost per player and lower the lifetime value of a player.
Quote:The bottom line is that there are lots of people making lots of money in the online gambling industry, but it never was and never will be the “easy money” business that some people have promoted it to be.Yes, very good remark. It’s one of the most competitive.
And one question I always think about… Think when USA *will* legalize the industry… What will happen when major Las Vegas brands such as Caesars etc… will enter the market? The brand awareness can be a powerful key driver, and players will land to gaming sites without SEs AND affiliates…
I am sure the future holds lots of market consolidation such as what we are seeing with Belle Rock and Fortune Lounge. That’s the only way most single online casinos will survive. We will see new groups created from companies merging.
But we still don’t have the answer: Where are the billions?
Let’s not forget that we have many casinos, especially the large established ones who can afford it, advertise offline. Many have been afraid that the US affiliates will not be able to function in the current legal climate and have started setting sights elsewhere.
Also, there are those who have reacted by churning out their own sites, or buying up large numbers of affiliate sites and are quietly operating these.
So many things affecting the climate in this industry…
“Yes, I know that highly targeted searched are much more interesting. But I do maintain, search engine traffic in this sector is very low in term of quantities.
“And this is simply objectively not true. “Poker” was in the top ten for all search terms for 2004, for example. That includes “John Kerry” and “Paris Hilton” and on and on. The free search engine traffic in this sector is staggering.
“I have other sites in other sectors and it is relatively “easy” (when you are an experienced webmaster and constantly work on your sites) to score 500-1000 unique visitors a day from Google. I am very far from this with my online gambling sites.”
I’m afraid this is probably more of a comment on your sites or seo abilities in other sectors compared to your sites or seo abilities in this sector. Visitors from 1000 unique search terms a day is doable in this sector.
Gambling is one of the deepest sectors for search engine traffic. People search for all sorts of things you wouldn’t imagine before you got into it. What it doesn’t have is something comparable to “viagra”, an obvious one word flagship term. “Poker” is one for that niche of the bigger sector, but besides that, “gambling” is nowhere near comparable to “viagra” as a flagship term. The gambling sector is about a wide, broad spectrum and volume of terms.
The gambling sector is about a wide, broad spectrum and volume of terms.
And a good thing that is, too! :bigsmile:
Quote:And this is simply objectively not true. “Poker” was in the top ten for all search terms for 2004, for example. That includes “John Kerry” and “Paris Hilton” and on and on. The free search engine traffic in this sector is staggering.I don’t put “poker” terms in the same bag than online gambling terms. Poker is booming actually and is becoming a society phenomenon (I am still not in – I should really).
Quote:The gambling sector is about a wide, broad spectrum and volume of terms.I think I understand your point of view. :bigsmile: You are talking about variety of search terms. I am talking about overall number of searches and more important unique users combined for all terms existing in a month for example. I assure you that the number of unique users is much more lower than people searching for wallpapers, free games, video games, screensavers, computer related searches, software searches or sex (if we exclude poker as I don’t have any numbers for this :1circling ).
I am however OK with you when you say that the variety of searches is what makes online gambling interesting in term of SEO and I haven’t seen anything near that in other sectors.
“I assure you that the number of unique users is much more lower than people searching for wallpapers, free games, video games, screensavers, computer related searches, software searches or sex (if we exclude poker as I don’t have any numbers for this ).”
Just because there are more grains of sand than ants in the world doesn’t mean there aren’t a helluva lot of ants. And, more to the point, the ant/gambling searches are worth dollars while the wallpapers etc searches are worth a penny or two (not counting the sex ones).
“You are talking about variety of search terms. I am talking about overall number of searches and more important unique users combined for all terms existing in a month for example.”
And I say the number is staggering, far higher than most people even in the business think.
On the other hand, if you don’t have poker in your mix, well that is like talking about the United States without including California and New York. Online gambling is at its highest point ever, with more money involved than ever, but the growth, and money, and public interest is more focused on a couple of sectors. If you only focus on the other sectors, the pie is smaller.
I have always agreed that the number of searches for gambling is inflated by the search engines and the number of gamblers is inflated by the media.
Just to clarify on the search term “poker” as of one the most popular search terms of the year. The term “poker” does not even bring in 1000 unique visitors per day to a site. The Lycos Top 100 says “poker” is a top term, but I think they are referring to poker in general is getting lots of searches. Being #1 is Google for “poker” brings in between 500 – 800 uniques a day depending on the time of year. At select points during the year is will go over 1000.
But if this is the highest search term in the industry, that is kind of sad because poker has only emerged in the last 12 months. What was the highest volume search term in the industry before “poker”?
I don’t know why you would think Lycos somehow treats poker differently than other terms, but the idea is absurd anyway. How are they supposed to know that “omaha big blind play” is a poker term?
For another source, Rank Pulse tracks both online poker and texas holdem in its top 1000, in addition to poker (and betting and gambling and…).
The point again is that this is not a business of one term, even the best one.
I think a problem here is expectations. 1000 visitors a day to one site for one term is huge. Overture bids for “poker” ran over $22 a click at one point, and were about twelve bucks when they stopped. That’s over $10k a day from one term, for one site. (1000 is low anyway but that hardly matters.) How many humans a day would you think would take the time to search for poker or whatever in a day? How many people does anybody think their website should attract, for free, from search engines in a day? (What would you expect???) You can get a helluva lot, but if you are thinking of a million people a day, you are crocked. And if you are thinking in terms of one search word, then you are crocked too. Thousands of people from thousands of terms is possible, but not if you just think of one term.
I’m sure that half of the traffic we do get is from webmasters, and i’m certain a good portion of the search volume is from webmasters. For example when i checks my stats tracker and see someone found me on yahoo.com under casino butt muncher then i’ll go to yahoo and type that in to see how high i’m listed.
As for missing the poker boat, in the past i received 10 times more poker traffic than casino traffic, and my casino income has always far exceeded my poker income. Poker has nice profit margins, but it’s not the only industry to have them. Everyone misses out on high profit industries so wont worry about them.
each download is a valid, live email address for the casino to pursue. These are expensive because they are hard to come by.
I agree with this and think new sign ups should be compensated in some way. Targeted natural search has to provide the best converters. What could be more valuable traffic than this? An example: I’ve got a poker room this month that has had 40+ new registrations and have not made one dime. The new registrations are obviously interested in playing online poker, have downloaded the software, like what this particular poker room has to offer, etc. so what’s the problem? There’s all of these roadblocks trying to get good targeted converting traffic – spyware, banking issues, and then search engines not accepting advertising. You finally get a good consistent flow of targeted traffic for them, which took months of work to build, and there is no reward. Someone tell me how 40+ new registrations over a three week period is worth zero money.
As for terms like online gambling; I think ones like that are too generic. There could be people that search for that term that are just looking for general information, even a student doing research on it. Give me 10 “i want to play slots online” searchers any day over 100’s of “casinos” or “gambling” ones.
