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IMO 58,000 is way over the top.
A bit over 1000 a month is not unreasonable IMO, I charge more than that for paid ads on my site.
But, only you can know your finances and only you can determine the value the exposure gives. It’s a bit tricky, because very few people will click on CAP ads, I mostly type in the name of a program I want to look at. The ads will remind me that I meant to look at something, and trigger me to go and have a look though, when I am done reading here. So it’s hard to measure ROI in such a situation.
So look at it as branding and see if it’s worth it to you would be my advice.
If you decide not to go with it, you will still be able to come and chat with us, and I like that change a lot.
You are right we did look at it as advertising – but even advertising must bring ROI – You are also correct that CAP affiliates don’t follow trackers. But we do have a box asking were the affiliate heard about us.
Yes 58k per year is a lot, but the full 58K also included PAP (8 months)
Dom honestly if you were in my shoes would you invest in CAP? And why? I want to do the most for my affiliates – is cap a good way to support them?
If I ran an affiliate program I probably would be ACTIVE in as many message boards visited by affiliates as I can.
But probably I am a bad person to ask this, because I am a branding fanatic. I believe in exposure, exposure, exposure. And then I believe in – did I mention exposure?
If I can’t be everywhere I prioritize according to the amount of exposure I get. Nothing else, just how many eyes will be looking.
You have other consideration too I am sure, I never ran an aff program, I am just an advertiser. Hence I am focussed on advertising as much as possible. :hattip:
I agree with what Dom said.
I disagree with different prices for different programs. If it were me, I’d be pissed off to find out that I paid a higher price for the same service as another program.
Everyone should be charged the same price for the same service. I can see prices being different if someone signs a longer contract and/or prepays for a longer period. But otherwise the price should be the same for program A as it is for program B. Period.
I agree with Daera I dont see a reason to charge for example affiliate program A $20k and affiliate B $50k for the same exact service.
I bet all of us will feel like crap if we happen to buy an SUV for $25k and two days later your friend get the same exact SUV for $10k:Cry:
IMHO there should be a page with the “official rates” to avoid this issues.
From what I know (and I am not involved in the business end) all fees are the same now.
They used to be different, but no more. It is one of the changes, much lower fees and the same for all.
If i paid that much and found out that i was on the higher end of charges and other programs were charged considerably less, then my “new” deal with the “new” cap administration would be to insist on a much lower price for this year to make up for all the “extra” cash you paid last year! IF you are an important client to a company, i would see no reason not to except that “stipulation” to keep you. So if you paid xxxxx last year, and this years “new” rates are $15k, then i would be asking for atleast “half” of that subtracted for this year, as a “gesture” for your continued support, even after being screwed.
Thoughts anyone?
I think teh answer is that there really is no one answer – there are so many variables and without knowing your business inside out from yoru budgets to your stratergy its hard to say “Yes or No” – If you asked the same thing about advertising in my mag or exhibiting at an event I could tell you all the advantages etc but it would be you that at teh end of the day has to look at those and weigh them up against your budgets, time, startegy, goals etc.
I definitely don’t think there is straight down the line answer for CAP or to be honest any forum especially if you look at it as an ROI or even an advertising startegy – Personally I see forums as a combination of recruitment, branding and awareness but I honestly believe simply spending the money and leaving it at that is not the answer and you won’t get anything in return if you do that.
If you seriosuly want to get your moneys worth you need to activate that sponsorship and be a serious part of teh community which can include (but is not limited to) taking part in threads, replying to queries immediately, running community activities i.e. slots tourney, etc, leveraging the deal to get specific promos just for that community in the newsletter – Then you begin to get your monies worth@Toweraffiliates.com 202743 wrote:
But we do have a box asking were the affiliate heard about us.
Oh and re this – These rarely work in my opinion – In my old job I ran an engineering magazine and Ford ran a massive recruitment campaign in us and The Telegraph and asked all their applicants where they saw the ad – The top preformer was a magazine not even included in the campaign as people just named the first mag that came in their head which at the time was the market leader so it simply was the first one that came to mind.
I will also always choose a mag on those drop down menus as I feel sorry for all us ad sales guys that get given sh1t about ROI :wink-wink
Dominique;202767 wrote:From what I know (and I am not involved in the business end) all fees are the same now.They used to be different, but no more. It is one of the changes, much lower fees and the same for all.
To be honest I wouldn’t be too miffed about paying a different fee to other affiliate programs and I’m not upset with CAP for working this way in the past. This is pretty normal business practice as far as I’m concerned and it’s up to the negotiating skills of the program to agree on a fee they’re comfortable with (you should never be held to ransom).
The bigger issue I can see is the fact that CAP are now willing to drop the fee considerably in probably the majority of cases, for what on the surface looks like the same product/service that we were getting before.
Unfortunately even after serious negotiation we ended up paying much more than you (without PAP it was more or less the price you quoted!!!) and at the moment we’re not very happy with it.
I’m still waiting for “the standard fees” to be announced, however, someone has to seriously do their job here in order to keep us happy. I cannot keep on trying to explain to my director the impossible to prove ROI’s and the value of a CAP certified (or now called CAP listed) programme. I can understand small difference in prices, however just because I’m a bigger brand (who’s to decide?) and I can afford it (again, who’s to decide?), it doesn’t mean that business deals can be so different.
Triple777’s suggestion would be definitely good for us, but if this was decided we would be CAP listed for the next 3 years for free and I don’t think that’s possible for all the programmes that have been overcharged.
To answer to your question, David, not sure whether it’s worth doing it again. I still need to see some proof, numbers, maybe affiliates’ and competitors’ opinions? This is what I’m planning to do next week and the whole of May.
First I have to thank everyone so far for the feed back:hattip: I hope to hear more.
A few points I would like to address from an affiliate side(affiliate program) – I do 100% agree with Alex it does take a lot of work to be part of forums – I also agree with Dom – I want to be every were I can – to show affiliates we are out there – our reputation will be made by those affiliates.
As a “new” (3 years strong) program I did my due diligents and knew CAP was a top place to be in order to grow. I do know what my true ROI is with CAP – it’s not that hard to figure out “even if the box was not checked” – It was not worth the $$$$ – That being said I think these forums are very important and keeps you in touch with your affiliates – This “was” is a good community of affiliates and gaming reps.
I want to make sure we are always part of the forums to be there for affiliates – but I do ask you would it matter if we had a description and banners on this site? Or would you as affiliates would rather have a rep active on the forums and pass the savings on to new up coming affiliates?On the affiliate reps side – CAP did hurt the affiliate community and betrayed our trust – Most affiliates would not be that forgiving. CAP did take $ and made it an exclusive club. This also hurt affiliates and start up programs. I still can’t believe that CAP created a poker room and casino then competed against the programs they were taking money from. Then the poker room didn’t pay affiliates (eventually most were paid) – They also had exclusive affiliate info we were not privy to. Is paying CAP 15k a year right now just rewarding them for mistakes made? Will we just start this all over again? If we are part of forums and are always available via skype/MSN and email – should that cost us 15k more? In truth it is not about feeling silly we paid so much for so little (I truely felt we had no choice) But it’s about the trust factor and if this new CAP will have the affiliates and affiliate programs best interest in the furture.
@Antonia_Eurobet 202784 wrote:
I’m still waiting for “the standard fees” to be announced
These are here: http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/bb/introduction-to-cap-listed-programs.35682.html?
Re. Banners, last year there were at least 4 programs I signed up with because I saw a banner here, and several more I investigated and decided they were not a good fit for me.
While I don’t click the banners, they remind me to go and look at the program when I have some time to devote to it.
These 4 were the only new programs I signed up with that year – having been in this biz for over 8 years, I know most programs already.
Re. CAP’s past shenanigans: Personally, I had left CAP at one point. I was pretty disgusted. What made me return was three things:
1. I was told about the coming change of terms for programs. I like the new price, it is lower than what I charge for a campaign on my site. I am glad the “certification” is gone, it was a nuisance at best. I trust that the present admin will be transparent and fair. The new system is simple and everyone knows what they are getting.
2. For the community here, CAP has built up a lot of resources that would be hard to replace. The searchable database shows many years of past performance of programs, very important to know for affiliates. We can see if and how issues were solved. I also like that non-paying programs are still able to address issues. With proper posting rules established now, there are no more arbitrary bannings – a big deal as far as community goes. We have free speech – exercised in a professional manner. Even this thread would not have been possible on the old CAP.
3. CAP ceased duplication of services provided by AGD. They also ceased audits as they used to be provided by APCW. This may not mean much to programs, but it means a lot to affiliates.
That’s what made me return – from an affiliate point of view of course.
I’d like to add – I like this thread. Open communication between programs and affs and honest opinions – very constructive IMO. :hattip:
Dom Thank you I do appreciate your points and they make sense. I have a lot of the same feelings about this community and that is why I decided to post the tough questions.
I did put this post up because I feel if programs and affiliates are going to support CAP – the questions must be asked and a response must be made. Not by CAP ownership but by the real community.
Affiliates and affiliate programs
As an affiliate, I don’t think these affiliate program forums have much value. Quite often the answers to affiliates in these forums are “please PM me for an answer” etc., because the affiliate programs are afraid of bad exposure – very understandable, of course.
So my advice is save the money, and just make sure you pay commission and answer emails in a timely manner. It should be as simple as that…
if an affiliate program was “just posting” in the past and they didn’t pay the certification fee and have their own forum, a wrong impression of that program was conceived.. this i guess created a pretty uncomfortable circle for programs to contend with
now that certification doesn’t exist anymore and affiliate programs can stick around and post and help out without fear of chastisement for not being “certified” i think its a good idea for programs to maybe get on the “wait and see” approach..
i think that there’s merit in sticking around (with or without a forum i dont know) to see what becomes of it all once the dust settles…. so long as programs who choose not to take a paid listing now are not disadvantaged later
