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kwblue wrote:But just because I am relatively new doesn’t mean my perspective is any less valuable.
I agree, and I’m sorry to sound so abrasive. I’m also not trying to pick on you. You may not have been new at all for all I knew. Sometimes I know who I’m talking to, and sometimes I don’t. (though, my point stays the same either way.) I’m not picking on any particular program, either.
I don’t even disagree with your assessment of what could happen. I would still see it as a positive move, if the numbers are real instead of inflated, those who bring in whales know they are keeping them, and suspicion is removed from affiliate and casino relationships.
The first program that would step up to an audit would be flooded with traffic so it must be economically detrimental.
Otherwise it would be in place.This goes for all affiliate programs not just the gambling industry
BradTalk Casinos wrote:This goes for all affiliate programs not just the gambling industryWho wouldn’t want to be flooded with traffic?
Because of jurisdictional issues, I think the gambling industry is a bit different.
Most US programs are subject to lawsuits, or criminal fraud indictments.
Maybe I missed the sarcasm, Brad. :Ohno:
It would be economically detrimental to get busted, for certain.
Hi,
I think what Brad meant was that its still more profitable to NOT be upfront than to get all that traffic for being upfront.
is that right B?
my perspective on things is that Aleph is probably closer to right than those that claim everything is jake;
and my reasons for this
the fact that there are so many ways to cheat; that when it comes to money, the ability to cheat someone without their knowing it; that they are basically faceless entities instead of viewed as real people … that this is a nearly fail-safe recipe for corruption.
if you are a gambler, and have played the slots (which are about 90% of what people play now) then you know that it takes nearly no time at all to have lost a sizeable amount of change… playing the games online. They are structured so that they get a big chunk of change out of you in order to cover all the bases on getting a jackpot. Shoot some of those games now have like 25 paylines… that adds up fast no matter what the credit value…
so to beleive that a player goes in and loses say $20 and then leaves things alone is not going to stand up to logical thinking. You must give the player credit for being smart enough to not throw away their whole bankroll on the pull of one slot game… meaning that if you’re only going to plan on losing $100, then you don’t go choose the 20 payline slot game and then play at credit values worth a $1 a shot, because that means you got 5 chances at hitting something on the slot game before you’re bankrupt.
hell no, any slot player with any kind of experience knows that in slots you need to stretch out your bankroll so that you can stay alive long enough to perhaps hit a nice win …. it is seldom you will walk into a casino and say to yourself; “I’ve only got $100. Somebody point me to the slot machine that will take it all in one pull of the handle!”.
quite the opposite.
so when you see yourself only making a few hundred bucks at a place and you’ve got more than one player; … and when you compare that place with another and you see that you consistently have small players at the one while the other seems to make a decent income with similar or less number of players… (*same software for both places) well its no great leap of faith from that point to guess that the place always producing small players may just be screwing you.
I see this a lot and its funny its always the same programs that have the small players isn’t it?
anyway, … its just damn hard for me to believe that there are players who come in and play to what amounts to only a few dollars actually exchanging hands over an entire month’s worth of time; on a consistent basis month after month. But that is what my stats would have me believe at some programs.
so to think that I’m only being told about 10% of the truth …. isn’t all that big a leap of faith when I consider that the place in question claims I made $100 that month (or less) and I add into the equation that a person would need nearly that much for just one gambling session in order to have any kind of chance at all of hitting a win… forget $100 for the whole damn month!
i know that may not be explained in the best way, so I hope you all get what I mean…
*edited to add that I am not accusing ALL programs of being cheats. Just saying it exists and in more than small quantities.
A possible solution to all this suspicions could to become unionized. Create a slush fund were every member contributes. The slush fund can then be used for covert activities. Am I crazy or what? But their is a alot of truth to skimming or shaving, I see it happenning all the time. Why do the affiliates we sponser don’t give full disclosure we give them ours, all our private details ect… Something to think about. I am just a mouth piece today. greek39
Dominique wrote:I agree with this. We would likely see adjustments if tracking was 100% accurate – which it never is from what I understand with my limited knowledge of math.I don’t think that all the programs are shaving, and I don’t think the ones who are do it all the time. But it must be awfully tempting to smooth over a bad month…
I think we would also find that the softwares themselves are having tracking problems. Much of this may not be intentional by the programs at all.
Microgaming needs to get off it’s duff and spend a little on creating an accurate, unified tracking program. Leaving it up to the programs is ridiculous. They should be in the business of selling, not of programming. If they didn’t have to provide the tracking themselves, they would be a lot more profitable and that would filter down to us.
Microgaming, shame on you on this issue! :nono:
I have been on their asses for three years about this issue and zilcho has happened. Personally I think we all should be a bit more vocal about this, though I’ve obviously been giving them some heavy stick in person and they are only paying me lip service on this issue.
Actually, if we start a thread in the public area specifically about this issue, I will make sure they get pointed to it.
greek39 wrote:A possible solution to all this suspicions could to become unionized. Create a slush fund were every member contributes. The slush fund can then be used for covert activities.Good idea, but easier said than done, an it only protects a few people. I’m not even convinced it helps that much.
Spear, point away.
I agree it would never work, because we are all, in a sense, competitors. Me personally I have no problem with it. Think a little deeper here how could a big chunck of cash benefit our persute? If people our worried about affiliates honesty, instead of wondering, do something about it.
I am sure everyone has heard this one, there are three kinds of people:
1. Those who watch things happen
2. Those who make things happen
3. Those who wonder what happennedSome more nonsense from greek39
I think the best way to approach this, with the moderators’ permission, is for someone (not me, they’ll claim ulterior motive LMAO) to start a thread which proposes various things that they would like to see implemented in a single affiliate backend – along with reasons, of course.
For example, one of my main reasons is to simplify the learning curve, such that anyone who logs into a Microgaming affiliate backend will only have to learn it once in order to be able to use it at each operator.
The main benefits of this, aside from a short learning curve, is to allow the affiliate programs to concentrate on the things they do best – marketing and affiliate support – instead of requiring them to deal with techie-type things, many of which they simply cannot solve because the problem lies with Microgaming, not them.
A few good posts from affiliates will be more than sufficient to get me to point them – they have a long list from me already, so it will be really useful to hear other affiliates express the same, or different, opinions and suggestions.
I have no problem with such a thread – it is sorely needed I think.
Just think of all the time and money Microgaming aff programs have spent of providing us with stats – it’s downright frightening. This is all money that could have been profit and part of it would have come to us as comission.
Software developers are the people to provide the statistics software.
Since some programs provide different items from others, we know that the available stats could be really great – including favorite games played by individual players and all kinds of things that allow you to target your promos better because you know your player demography better.
Hopefully accuracy would improve with such in house statistics also.
Sticking the programs with providing the software for the stats is totally irrational.
http://www.gamblingmagazine.com/frontpage.asp
Casino Affiliate Fraud
Part 1Was checking back on his web site, and looks like part 1 of the series is up.. Interested to hear people’s thoughts
My feeling is he hasn’t provided a heck of a lot of hard evidence here. But does put forth some well-reasoned arguments. Some of what he says may or may not be true, I’d like to see some more examples of people with specific results coming forward with their information, also more specific references for statements of fact made in the article.
A couple quotes that struck me..
Quote:It’s important to note that the majority of online gambling operators get 100% of their business from affiliates. The ones who don’t get 100% are pretty close to this figure, and the goal of every operator is to only get business from affiliates because it’s so easy to cheat them.Quote:Many will even pay the affiliates on time each month to try to convince them that they are honest and reliable, when nothing can be further from the truth. When an affiliate has been cheated for 95% or much more, why not pay him on time to create a good impression.In my opinion, a lot of hearsay, and very little fact of substance.
The article intertwines certain publicly-known facts (ie. ownership of Party) and software backends (ie. Handa-Lopez) with a bunch of hot air. Because there are some facts in the articles, some people unaware of what is going on will naturally take the whole article at face value.
The cookie issue does not rob affiliates – in fact, it allows a reasonable amount of time for a sale to be converted – otherwise, if someone else sends the player and converts them, they would not get credit.
Having not explored the cookie issue there in any depth, I’m reluctant to say any more in case there is something I have missed.
Quote:**** ******* was heavily involved with pornography at the time, and she was closely working with criminals and crooks as her close partners. You don’t have criminals as your partners unless you are dishonest yourself. She was also an attorney. Many good reasons not to trust her in the first place.Fact: She was involved with porn.
Unproven: She was working with criminals and crooks.
Fact: She was an attorney.
Debatable: Being an attorney is a good reason not to trust someone.This is what I mean about fact intertwined with hot air and hearsay.
Yeah, I’m still interested in what Claude has to say about all those other programs – but I’m not holding my breath, I started skimming after the paragraph above because it was quite clear that I wouldn’t be seeing anything different from the past.
at the end of the day, all that matters is your payout.
this is gambling…has any gambling industry ever been known for its honesty?
so to me i expect shaving and what matters most are my payouts and i don’t much stock into the “stats” that my sponsor’s software generates.
