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I think someone mentioned spammers earlier. That’s probably how Grand Prive and Villa Fortuna will have to get new players from now on. Though I doubt they’ll mind.
I just feel that the way they’ve run their business has been wreckless. They do everything in oversized proportions. Massive bonuses, free money like there’s no tomorrow. Then piss all their players off by restricting most of them from any bonuses. A punishment to players that are loyal and claim their promotions. After a short period of time, they do it all over again.
They used to boast and brag about how deep their pockets were. They paid affiliates well. And now they’re going to punish affiliates like they do players when things get too expensive from their wreckless spending.
I feel sorry for Irwin and Vit. They just work there, and probably can’t count on being treated anymore fairly then their affiliates are being treated now.
Irwin’s been an outstanding affiliate manager and I hope to work with him again at some other program one day. But Grand Prive should have managed their aquisition/retention budget better. Instead of trying to recoop by breaking agreements with us, or turning their back on players.
Professor, although I haven’t received anything else in writing, I have also been on the phone with them and was told there is no light at the end of this tunnel. Other then them dreaming we’ll all say ok and hop over to start promoting VF. NOT! Unless someone could talk some sense into the owners before it’s too late like you said. I don’t know who that would be though. I don’t think they’re even considering leaving the affiliate program open. I hope I’m wrong and Irwin comes in soon to tell us it’s business as usual.
(Not holding my breath)
@Inspiration 189078 wrote:
casinos are still open, live chat works too. Players can play and deposit.
what a mess.
:flush:
Yep, and that part isn’t going to change. The casinos are business as usual. Only the affiliates are getting cut.
I do not think that merely dropping them and not promoting their new casino is sufficient.
A message must be sent that this is unacceptable.
Groups that try it will have to know we will go after what we are rightfully owed.
If they wish to discontinue the program for new players, that is their business, but commissions on old players must be paid.
I have tried to write my rep and the CEO without response.
This group has had plenty of chance to take a step back, but it looks like dialog with them will not be possible in the wake of their not even getting back to us.
I therefore propose that we lodge formal complaints with the jurisdictions they hold licensing with and that this behavior be formally reported to MicroGaming.
From what I know of it, jurisdictions generally do expect casino license holders to engage in proper business conduct. While they are under no obligation as such to us, they will likely have an interest on this.
That is the further course of action that I think we as a group should take.
Further action such as a class action lawsuit will have to be considered based on what transpires with the above actions I would propose as well.
I agree.
Professor, can CAP act for us in this? File an official complaint with Microgaming and with the licencing authorities?
I have a few things to say on this, and I’m almost in disbelief that this is about a Microgaming operator. No demerits on this one, ok Lou!:roflmao:
I was one that that liked these guys. They did OK for us at one time.
Yes, like all of the casinos, it has been harder and harder in the U.S., which effects some of us more than others of course.At this stage, even a couple of hundred dollars a month is a big deal to a hell of a lot of affiliates when you multiply that by 50 or 60 programs per month!!!
I think most of us know that there are some family ties within Microgaming.
I don’t honestly know if GrandPrive is amongst them, but I do know one thing without question or doubt.Microgaming has ALWAYS put the Industry and their reputation first from a software provider standpoint.
When MGS casinos have closed, Microgaming stepped up to the plate to protect their brand, and made sure the Players got paid out.Never once do I remember a screw job like the one developing here.
Family or no family, Microgaming needs to step up again, but this time to protect the Affiliates.
Other Microgamings operators should also stand up and be counted, { family or not}, because this kind of thing hurts them, and the brand they are selling to gamblers AND Affiliates thruout the Planet.In the REAL world, Microgaming could easily face repercussions, IMO, just for allowing an Operator to continue operating on any level while breeching the agreements of 1000’s of marketers that trusted the agreements they signed on to.
Let alone open a new unit to cross market past affiliate efforts to!!!
If this stands, it is a sad day for the Industry to be sure.:Cry:This industry is SO dependent on TRUST. TRUST by the Players, Trust of Affiliates to paid for their efforts, and TRUST that our Software providers, and Licensing jurisdictions will actually take action on gross inproprieties, such as the one shaping up here.
That’s why I was so HAPPY that the BCP thing finally worked out!
They will get a lot of traffic next year for doing the right thing, and they deserve it now, IMOSo Lou, Warren,..this is one you need to take the lead on too.
I realize I’m not on your Christmas list, but the simple fact is, CAP has the largest affiliate base, and we need you guys to present these issues for all of us in a unified effort.
We have a Private thread going on this too over at 3rd base too, and the sentiments are exactly the same as in this thread.
I don’t see anything at the GPWA on this important issue yet, but certainly this might be a time for all you Big Guys, {no pun intended:tongue:}, to cooperate!I’m getting a bit “Gravitationally Challenged” myself these days, BTW!:roflmao:
Sermon completed!
Excellent post CPA and I agree 100% with you. I am wondering on the family think too not sure if this owner is related to the MG family but if he were in my family I would be hanging my head in shame! This place has done enough cheating, if MG were to audit and look deep into the records here and we all know they can because MG tracks EVERYTHING they would find players being untagged from affiliates and who knows what else! They are going to get a fight from me I am not laying down and taking this crap. Not that I earn much since they have cut my player base so bad with all the untagging, moving links not mapping over players when they moved etc. I mean really are we talking about a shady MG operator, I never thought we would see this day!!!
I understand, and don’t take this the wrong way.LOL
I’m just trying to sense out of something that doesn’t!!I do believe there are many “Profitabilty” issues going on out there with the casinos.
Probably need a few more consolidations to occur just to be honest.
This Industry built way too fast, IMO.Some are managed better than others, as was noted in this thread, so those may survive OK without U.S. Players.
That goes for all of them, not just GrandPrive, or MGS Outfits.Eventhough U.S. Players are tougher to get these days, some Operators may have needed whatever they were getting in new players to survive.
It seems that No NEW U.S. Players was a dealbreaker for them.I’m getting the feeling, {and this is just a guess, BTW}, that GrandPrive was in this situation.
When MGS pulled the plug on new players, the Bean Counters probably figured out that they would not survive without at least SOME new U.S. Players.
If that IS the case, then you have to ask yourself.
What would you do if there was an avenue to save your company?If they close the casinos, then Affiliates don’t see a dime, Right?
If the keep the casinos open and screw the Affiliates, the Affiliates still don’t see a dime, but they probably survive because they saved all of the Affiliate payout money which probably exceeds the value of new U.S. Playersin the CURRENT environment.Sucks for sure, but if those were your options, what would you do?
Screw yourself, or screw the people that are screwed anyway, regardless of which way you go?Interesting thought, Eh?:roflmao:
Kind of a Moral Compass sort of thing going on there!
If that IS the case, then you have to ask yourself.
What would you do if there was an avenue to save your company?How about deal with it in a graceful, professional and communicative manner? This is 100% the opposite to what we have seen here.
There have always been shenanigans with this group from the outset.
This will go down as one of the most stupid, unprofessional and downright shocking acts in the online casino affiliate marketing history.
This can not be smoothed over as being a case of kicking a dying dog.
Their new casino MUST be exposed for what it is – a rogue operation.
I agree obviously!
Just thought it was worth trying to understand it, since it doesn’t make sense!
In this situation, a decision was made to screw the affiliates to save themselves.
That’s the only thing that makes any sense on this.
You won’t get any graceful and Professional communications from people that are in this situation.Barring any spectacular negotiations on this from CAP, I have to sadly agree that no one should support this new casino.
Lou is right that any blacklist efforts need to include this new casino, and let Players past and Present know not to play there.
My only suggestion is that we give CAP a few days to discuss with the GrandPrive owners, IF they can.
A couple of days won’t matter, and maybe they can get something worked out for the Affiliates on this.If not, Full Steam ahead, of course!
What is so odd about all this is we have NEVER seen a Microgaming Operator behave like this. Couple that withe fact that for years Grand Prive has been a great program to work with and they have been great supporters of the community and you can understand why we are slightly shell shocked by all this. Had this not been the case we would have acted sooner as we were giving them the full benefit of the doubt and I was fairly confident this was just a case of poor communication.
Based on many of the private communications I have received over the last few days this does not appear to be the case and it appears we are looking at a very serious scandal that WILL destroy the reputation of a formerly good copmpany. Unfortunately it COULD also shake affiliate and player faith in the Microgaming Platform.
Obviously thats something we all would like to avoid at all costs.
CAP will take an active role from here on out and get things sorted as best we can. That’s what we have always done together as a community and nothing has changed that core value.
Here’s the game plan
Our official requests are straight forward
1. Affiliates MUST be paid for the life of ALL their existing players (US and World) at all casino brands. We STRONGLY urge that affiliates continue to receive the commissions due them from the Grand Prive casinos via the “new” Villa Fortuna program to make this an easy process. If an alternate process can be implemented faster that is fine also.
2. Player tracking and reporting for all existing players be accessible in real time to all affiliates.
3. Grand Prive/Villa Fortuna shall maintain a prompt payment schedule for affiliates and players as they have done in the past.
4. It is our suggestion/request that Irwin be retained as the primary affiliate program manager. We feel he knows our accounts and needs better than any potential replacement. Our community members are all comfortable working with him. While we cant presume to dictate staffing at Villa Fortuna we would ask that this request be honored.
5. We require a written and public response to these requests within 3 business days, if we don’t recieve an official response during that period we will move forward with severe punitive actions which may include the following:
a) A formal complaint will be lodged with Microgaming with the request that the licensee be held accountable for the affiliate agreements made by the Grand Prive/Villa Fortuna Group.
b) A formal complaint and request for moderation will be filed with eCogra.
c) A formal complaint will be filed with the appropriate licensing authorities for the Grand Prive/Villa Fortuna casinos.
d) Press releases along with affiliate and player warnings will be issued to ensure everyone is aware of the now illegal and predatory practices of Grand Prive/Villa Fortuna.
e) Villa Fortuna will be banned from certification at CAP, appearances or entry at all CAP Events will be prohibitted. Advertising within CAP Magazine will be prohibitted.
f) We include full articles in CAP Magazine and complete reports of this incident on CAP TV and CAP and PAP Radio.
As stated previously, we sincerely hope that all this can be avoided and that Villa Fortuna/Grand Prive do the fair and honorable thing and respect the hard work and dedicatioon of their affiliate partners.
Danesh there is time to stop this ticking time bomb, lets do it now please.
Meanwhile I am blacklisting them here: http://www.gamesandcasino.com/blacklist/grandprive-blacklisted.htm
I exchange links with all like pages.
I will participate on this blacklist chain with Dominique, Bonustreak and others, my page:
http://www.gambling.li/owner/grand-prive-group-allegory-investments.htmlHi all,
Prof has it pretty well covered but I wanted to chime in on a key point or two.
1. If we all stick together and act, run some front page links to full page warnings about that the entire gambling guide / portal community has for the first time ever issued an industry wide warning about a MGS powered casinos (insert names here)
that based on the actions taken in recent times by the owners of the casinos named … blatantly breaching long-time existing contracts with extreme prejiduce …. that it is no longer safe or otherwise said financially wise to do any kind of business with said establishments for fear they will not honor player accounts in same fashion.
In other words if we find out we’re not getting paid and i think that was their plan …. then lets not do this half-ass. Send a message that is unmistakeable. Because an extreme effort in this case could save a lot of bad situations from happening in the future and in such an important matter I think it merits extreme reaction once it is certain the matter is as we understand it to be.
2. This will require efforts from all communities. CAP cannot do it alone and make the kind of impact that would be done if the full force of affs were to participate.
I think it will be enough. I think it will send a strong message if we all participate.
can someone provide a complete list of casino names to go on the blacklist?
I’m seeing some names I didn’t know were linked to GP .. and would just like a complete list so I don’t miss any.
thanks in advance.
