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Welcome to CAP Saint.
I’m quite a beginner myself, but here are my 2 cents:
a.– poker and other casino games are 2 different routes
–do not go for flat CPA
–im not quite confidential with partypokerb. — people looking for general poker info, will often click on a link to real gaming—- no % here though
c. average 4 months
d. geussing “average”!! 100$
e. no knowledge
f. revenue share wthout a doubt
my personal opinion in short:
go casinos on revenueshare and s00n!
lol, you should have done it already:)
(and not Party)Thanks for getting the ball rolling elgoog. Would you be able to elaborate on some of your answers (ie. why you don’t like PartyPoker, why rev. share and not CPA, CTR conversions) and if possible, provide sources for them? I think that would be useful for everyone on the board as well.
Bill,
It’s hard to be specific as you haven’t provided your site URL (that I can see) … so … here is my general thoughts …
EXCLUSIVE? THEN CHARGE A FEE !
Don’t sell your sites potential short – 30,000 uniques is good – and if’s all from TYPE-IN traffic then that’s great.If Partypoker want an EXCLUSIVE deal for poker promotion then they should be paying a monthly tenancy fee (in advance) as well as any rev share or CPA deal.
Rev-share and CPA are standard – exclusive deals require a bit of upfront cash in my opinion.
CLICK THROUGH RATES
You say that you’ve got a daily CTR (click-thru-rate of 10%), but I suspect that’s as a site as a whole – how does that actually translate to each individual item ?What are the CTR numbers on your obvious sales items where a spend is involved? And how does that translate to actual conversion? This should give you a feel for the ballpark for PartyPoker.
After all – it’s all about finding money-players not free players.
POKER PLAYERS – AVERAGES
Averages stink. They usually tell you nothing about the numbers that they proport to represent.We could say 3-4 months, at $300 spend might be average. (seems sensible)
But if you get 1 poker whale then he could spend 10x that in a night.
While many players will be $20-$50 spenders and stop after losing their money.You know your site and your customers better than us mate. Are they spenders? Do they buy items? Or are they freebie hunters?
Could you have big spenders visiting? Probably not if your site is called CHEAPO-POKER.COM but if it’s HIGH-ROLLER-POKER.COM then you may have a good potential market.
US ISSUES
Well there shouldn’t be any – yet – but who can tell with politicians?REV SHARE vs CPA
Always going to be a debate on this one.CPA brings immediate benefits. But if you are hooking Whales and being paid just $75 each for them then you’re being sold sort.
Rev-share is supposed to maximise profits – but many affilaites are unhappy with extra charges, levies, buy-out deals, rakeback, and other items.
It’s a choice that you have to make.
Personally – I’d charge them a monthly advertising fee (as I said above) and accept rev-share and see how it does.Let us know how it works out.
:popcorn:Party had proven to be a bad choice for many, myself included.
you might consider going with a program that has both casinos and poker rooms … of which there are many to choose from. I think that many others here, like myself, are hesitant to recommend any one program because it seems that so often times a program does very well for one person and not for another.
programs I know that offer at least 2 poker sites to promote and several casinos would be casino rewards and wagershare.
TheGooner: Thx for the detailed reply. I agree with you about the cash advance in exclusive promotional deals and will mention this if/when I negotiate with them. The CTR% is sitewide and unfortunately, I don’t know what they are for each item.
The reason I ask for averages is because I am trying to find what the majority of the poker players spend across the entire industry so I can get an idea of what to expect my minimum range to be. If I do get whales, even better, but I’d rather get information about what a typical poker player demographic profile looks like than to try to incorporate what happens if I land whales.
We could say 3-4 months, at $300 spend might be average. (seems sensible)
But if you get 1 poker whale then he could spend 10x that in a night.
While many players will be $20-$50 spenders and stop after losing their money.If you have any sources for those figures, would you be able to share that?
I’m also considering some sort of a hybrid rev-share/CPA deal. Does anyone have any experiences with that?
bb1webs: I see. I am hearing concerns about how these companies are not fullfilling their obligation to the “lifetime” contracts — do you know if Casino Rewards and/or Wagershare map over their players if they acquire or get acquired by a smaller/larger company? What did you and didn’t you like about Party?
Saint,
just start promoting casinos asap
and as The Gooner said, make a upfront deal
also we need your site-url
and as bb1webs said, we are hesitant to mention a certain casino
i feel good wth this one for over 4 years now http://www.unitedpartnerprogram.com/CL1317/
i am simply not converting at Party
reason?
dont know
i promoted them average, but zeroHi elgoog, I don’t think a URL would make that much difference since I’ve been fairly upfront so far, but if there’s anything that you believe I should provide in order to get a better assessment, I’ll certainly take it into consideration.
it would help to put your comments in a “reference-kader”
srry, this is beyond my english knowledge
lets say it would help us to help you more
i think
but its ok like this
saint wrote:TheGooner:
The reason I ask for averages is because I am trying to find what the majority of the poker players spend across the entire industry so I can get an idea of what to expect my minimum range to be. If I do get whales, even better, but I’d rather get information about what a typical poker player demographic profile looks like than to try to incorporate what happens if I land whales.We could say 3-4 months, at $300 spend might be average. (seems sensible)
But if you get 1 poker whale then he could spend 10x that in a night.
While many players will be $20-$50 spenders and stop after losing their money.If you have any sources for those figures, would you be able to share that?
The only experience I have is with my own statistics for the poker sites that I promote at Our Poker Room Guide
(you will notice that Party Poker is nowhere near that list).
:shhh:In my best poker room I’ve had 59 depositing players you’ve generated $7,000 in rake for me. Remember that is Poker – player spend is not the aim – but player rake.
So your could say that it’s $120 per player in rake … but the top two player were responible for over half that .. and seriously skew the statistics.
So 2 whales were worth around $1600 each, and 54 players “averaged” around $50. But even then I’d say that the bottom half of depositing players were worth only about $20 each in rake.
sigh.gifIn other rooms I’ve seen poker players deposit $50 and be worth $5 only – they lost too quickly … while other players are tournament players only so you’re up for a share of that only.
It really does depend on your players – and industry “averages” really only exist in the mind – each site has a different demographic – a differnt slant – and attracts a different type and style of player.
Hopefully my stats help to show that – and help you?
(oh and I’d really like to know the URL to pay a visit now – just for interest).
Good luck mate.
and
you make such an inpression on me,
id love to know your site:)
I will cut through the chase and say “don’t do it”. Although I do currently support them I have not got around to removing them. This is just my personal opinion, feel free to take other people’s advice.
Welcome to CAP “saint” greek39
Paul,
TheGooner wrote:In my best poker room I’ve had 59 depositing players you’ve generated $7,000 in rake for me. Remember that is Poker – player spend is not the aim – but player rake.That’s a nice sum, but what’s the frequency and time span for that? Was that in 1 day? 1 month? 1 year? Because if that’s $7k in 1 year, then I would think going the CPA route would be a faster and potentially better ROI given the time.
TheGooner wrote:So your could say that it’s $120 per player in rake … but the top two player were responible for over half that .. and seriously skew the statistics.How long have you had these “whales”? I mean, in terms of length of activity, how long does a typical poker player (disregarding those who just deposit, play, lose and never come back again) play for? Whales, regulars, whatever.
Poker is not casino … repeat the mantra … poker is not casino.
:hehe:A poker whale is probably not losing money – remember that poker rooms take money from each hand (the rake) which gets shared with the affiliate.
It’s players who win or lose money … not the room … and for a player to continually be playing and generating rake – then I assume that they are actually winning or at least treading water.
:satisfiedSo they’ll play on – hopefully indefinately – or until making money becomes boring.
Our poker pages have been up for more than a year .. but trends are good .. and that is the big difference between CPA and rev-share.
I have no doubt that CPA wins in year one – but you have to work just as hard (with new visitors) to repeat in year two – and again in year three.
If we assume that 40%-50% of customers stay loyal in poker then you can see how rev share is a headstart in year two – and even better in the long term.
And remember – I’m not a poker affiliate really – sports betting is my thing – but I also promote the reliable poker offerings by reliable bookmakers (which is commonplace in Europe).
I’m sure there are much much bigger poker affiliates here.
