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I can’t do that Fergie, I promised not to.
But – I think maybe my outside post will draw someone out to post their names.
I hope so.
I am trying to draw attention so the names will come out – I think Greg will post.
Well I Can….
The two that are being discussed now have ripped off Adriches, Vegas Partner, Wager Profits, Wager Junction and Gambling Wages. I dont have exact numbers on how much they have taken but I know in Larry Galanskys case they took him for over $10,000 at Wager Junction.
Both of these charecters post at WOL, GPWA and in one ‘ladies’ case here at CAP under two different names.
If CPA programs and paid placement deals are scaled back it will very likely be because of thieves like these two.
:angry:Lou,
If either or both of these people are in APCW please lemme know so I can adjust the roster accordingly.
They got iglobal too.
This is hurtful to other affiliates as the professor said – it ruins deals for honest folks. The programs are getting leery of special deals.
I am for letting programs have a forum to solve some of these things among themselves – but I also think that everyone is entitled to know who is screwing them out of $ or out of the general trust and good faith that managers show towards us.
Some of us may unknowingly support and defend these two women.
I want to post their names.
For all the reasons already stated, but for another, more insidious threat: Everyone is sitting there wondering who it is, turning names over in their minds. Maybe some are convinced they know who it is, and they have the wrong person in mind.
In order to protect the innocent from the slightest tarnish to their reputation, the names of the offenders should be published.
I, for one, don’t want anyone to even consider that the ‘female’ cap member might be me!
lol :p
Well we fear reprisals much more often and from a much more vulnerable position.
Yet we do it. (speak up that is)
1. We cannot police ourselves if we don’t know who to police.
2. We cannot “police ourselves” effectively: period. However we can support the programs. But its up to the programs to protect themselves in this matter. There simply is no other way. So what if the names were released, what is anybody here going to do about it?
Just like we work together to exposure programs that shave, cheat or otherwise have “tracking issues”, the programs must learn to work together in a similar way.
Many, many times I have signed and sent programs very good traffic and seen nothing for my troubles.
That is the risk you take. What should have happened is just like we will put in $200 into a PPC and then if it doesn’t produce, we don’t go back.
It should be the same for the other side of the table. If any program got taken for an extreme amount of money then frankly as I see it they’ve nobody to blame but their own lazy if not totally incompetent people.
When after the first 10 players signed up and not one of them showed any signs of being a quality player, (afore mentioned number should be recalculated according to the expected quality of the traffic, I just picked 10 out of a hat): it should have raised a red flag big enough to see from across the room.
When such happens, its the program’s responsibility to contact the traffic’s origin (that would be the offenders) and tell them they no longer are going to pay them on that sort of basis.
I am glad Dom brought this issue up.
As we affiliates wont work with some casino software groups and say all casinos using that software are cheating us.
This could happen to us with casino affiliate mangers thinking all CAP members cheat on CPA deals. We don’t want that.
Personally I don’t like CPA deals and rarely ever will accept offers, however I know there is affiliates that prefer to work on a CPA deals which are honest and legit people. So why should these 2 webmasters ruin it for others?
As a benifit for the casinos being a member at CAP this should be considered to give them this type of information.
Ok lets go ahead and do it publically since everyone thinks that the fairest way of handling this.
For what its worth I have heard the exact same stories about these two for months, I was shocked the other day when I was talking to Nubia at gambling Wages and she indicated the person who was asking us for help was in fact Michelle Slowiski (spelling) also known as “SlotChik” and they were going to pay her but were cancelling her affiliate account. She registered with several names here including “CaliGirl”. She and Elisabeth May (spelling) “Amateur” at GPWA have been pulling this on programs both together and seperately for a LONG time and to alot of programs apparently.
Well, this is taken from the public forums at gpwa, where Greg posted about his problem:
Amateur
GPWA Asst. ManagerJoined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 1656Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:21 pm Post subject:
I hear what you’re saying, Greg. And I know there are some bad webmaster/affiliates out there. Just as there are bad casinos, players, etc.But the fact is that the GPWA is not a “policing” organization. We have rules, of course, and those who break them are subject to penalties of one form or another. But we can’t “make” anyone do anything, whether it is who they promote, or how they conduct their private business. We are a group on independent contractors who come together for our mutual benefit. People come and go as they please.
Another fact is that, in this relationship, the affiliate programs have absolute power. Affiliates have no control whatsoever over anything except advertising and promotion of casinos. Any stats, payments, terms or conditions are completely under the control of the programs. If you can’t do anything to correct the situation, for sure you can’t expect that we can.
Programs must accept responsibility for policing their own programs and taking appropriate action when necessary. If you have all the advantages of having complete control, then you must also accept the responsibility that comes with it. Can’t take the “goodies” and then complain when a bad part comes along.
As for communication among the program managers, they do this all the time. For sure they go from managing one program to another. Surely they talk with old co-workers about this and that. To think otherwise is naive. SA mgrs talk, CR mgrs talk. They know who these people are.
I have no problem with that. I’m out here taking a chance on making a profit, and the casinos are doing the same. Taking a gamble as surely as the players who visit their casinos.
My two cents, anyway.
_________________
AmateurFailure doesn’t mean you’ll never make it,
it does mean it will take a little longer
TheAPage
TheAPage ForumHer sudden appearance and post are not very surprising are they?
This was one of the reasons I was reluctant to discuss this publically as we didnt want to touch off a range war where Amateur gets her friends to circle the wagons and make this appear as an attack on her rather then an exposure of a fraudster.
I do not want to see this turning into a fight either – and it won’t.
It is not an attack and if we don’t make it one it won’t look like one.
CAP is a professional place and we don’t do attacks and flames – everyone knows that.
We just stick to our principles.
This isn’t meant to defend anyone who’s defrauding an affiliate program, but it is a suggestion that would prevent a lot of this type of fraud.
If a casino affiliate program wants to prevent CPA fraud, they could have a program where the affiliate gets a high percentage of the customer’s first deposit.
I think the way most CPA deals work now, the affiliate program pays $100 or $150 or something like that for a customer who deposits $50 or so.
In that case a program could easily pay a 100% commission on the customer’s first deposit and still do very well, since most players are going to make multiple deposits. Even if the program paid 75%, the affiliate would have guaranteed income, just like on a CPA deal, and the program would still make plenty of profit because of the lifetime value of a player.
Chargebacks could be deducted accordingly.
I only do rev-share deals, so it wouldn’t affect me one way or the other. But if I were running an affiliate program in this industry, I’d consider something like the above.
Happy to hear other opinions. (And like I said, I don’t make this suggestion to defend anyone who’s trying to defraud a casino. Cheaters never win, IMO, and there’s a lot more money to be made being honest and working hard than by scamming. Everyone in this industry should remember that.)
I only do Rev Share also Randy as I think its the most fair way for a partnership to work. I think most honest affiliates quickly realize this is the most productive payment scheme after a short time in the business. No one can afford to give away whales for $150 or $200. The problem being dicsussed is unique to CPA and its a shell game. Here’s how it has been working:
1. Casino agrees to pay affiliate $200 (example) per new depositing player who deposits a minimum of $50.
2. Scammer contacts list of accomplices with the new casino offer and instructions.
3. They sign up and deposit $50
4. Scammer is paid $200
5. Scammer pays accomplice $100 – $150
6. Scammer pockets $50 to $100 per accomplice
7. Number of accomplices grows Virally as more and more newbie players tell friends they found way to play for free and keep big wins while pocketing double their money! Scammer offers override to people who refer friends to help grow list.
8. The casino gets raped, buts its very difficult for them to do anything as these are real players who did deposit the minimum and do download and play some games. If they squak affiliate threatens to blast them everywhere if they arent paid.
9. If finally called on it the scammer falls back on excuses of “buyer beware” or “Hey I did what they asked, I sent depositing players. They deposited above the minimum I need to be paid. Its not my fault if they set up deals where they lose money”
As affiliates its easy for us to empathize with the affiliate if you dont understand or believe they are intentionally scamming the casinos. But it does negatively impact all of us. I wouldnt be surprised if honest affiliates arent shaved to cover the losses generated by the scammers.
Believe me, I’m not empathizing with anyone who would try to defraud an affiliate program. I just think that by its nature, the CPA model encourages that kind of cheating. If I were an affiliate program, I wouldn’t even offer it.
There’s plenty of money to be made by being honest.
