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Hey Casinomeister
You have videos too?Can you give me the link please?I agree Casinomeister and CAP not the same business model. I would love to see some of the affiliate managers share their opinion on this issue.At the end of the day it is their money ,does it bother them?As a season affiliate i give little weight to cap certification ,I see it as an advertising fee program pay .We only deal with 16 programs listed here and when programs generally say please list us because they are cap certified we delete their emails lol.We are 4 girls here and if you hit our mail box when one of us is pmsing you are done for at least 1-2 years lol .My best program is not CAP certified -Pantasia Casino and I think most affiliates here deal with them.CAP does not own any poker skins, casinos, bingo rooms or online gaming operations we have stated this over and over. I dont know what more we can do to address this. Bryan I hope you enjoy the awards and in the future I hope we can work together in a more positive light.
In the mean time can I respectfully ask that you not disrupt CAP until we have had a chance to speak personally. We have never been disrespective on your boards and I ask that you do the same here.
I didn’t see Casinomeister as being disrespective. I seen him ask questions that many of us want answers to, and say the things that many of us are thinking.
I guess this says volumes….
Thanks for the support Daera. Perhaps you’re right. I create too much of a distraction and raise too many questions by even being here anymore. I know many believe I am some kind of monster now and even my old friends have fallen silent in support so I will do whats best for the community and simply move on. Its been a great run and I truly enjoyed it until the last few months but now its a nightmare thats damaging my health and something I dread getting up to. Unfortunately I have already purchased tickets to London and have a hotel room booked so I may be forced to go, but this is my last appearance at the events. We have built a great team and staff that can assist everyone. I sincerely hope everyone finds them more agreeable to work with. It’s time for me to move on.
This just sucks. I just want to say that I”m still your friend and wish the very best for you Professor no matter what you decide.
@Professor 195404 wrote:
Thanks for the support Daera. Perhaps you’re right. I create too much of a distraction and raise too many questions by even being here anymore. I know many believe I am some kind of monster now and even my old friends have fallen silent in support so I will do whats best for the community and simply move on. Its been a great run and I truly enjoyed it until the last few months but now its a nightmare thats damaging my health and something I dread getting up to. Unfortunately I have already purchased tickets to London and have a hotel roomm booked so I am forced to go, but this is my last appearance at the events. We have built a great team and staff that can assist everyone. I sincerely hope everyone finds them more agreeable to work with. It’s time for me to move on.
If you move on I doubt Cap will survive or sustain the level it has now .I understand how it is to build something that becomes bigger than yourself then to have to deal with health issues as well.CAP = Lou Fabiano so it is ridiculous to think there can be CAP events without you.Maybe some bad business decisions have been made but I certainly don’t think anyone would want to see you remove yourself from CAP.
Judy
Judy for whatever reason I do think most people will be happy to see me removed from CAP. Even you said above you give no weight to CAP certifications and delete emails of programs that say they are. If thats the prevailing view then why am I wasting 12 -14 hours a day bringing you CAP?
I have never done anything negative or that damaged anyone in this industry. I know thats not the popular belief now, but its the truth. I am sure CAP will go on and people will hopefully get what they want or expect of it. Time passed me by and my values and beliefs are now antiquaited in the new “Fox News” style community format that seems to be what people want. There’s an end to all seasons.
Grrrrrrr!
I stop watching for a bit and come to see this.
Lou, we will speak in London. I hardly think that the community wants to see you leave.
The message board is your baby, and mine too.
The concept we started is as valid today as it was almost a decade ago. CAP has served many, many affiliates as contact point for meeting each other and the affiliate programs.
I wouldn’t volunteer for something for years on end if I didn’t see it as a worthwhile endeavor.
We have intervened over the years and we got dozens of payment issues solved, we stood strong together when programs breached contracts, and that happened quite a few times over the last few years. We got all of these terms reversed, every single one.
Perhaps a lot of affiliates are not even aware what an inpact this made on the industry, and how many dodgy programs have fallen by the wayside because the CAP community has stood strong together.
In a totally unregulated industry, affiliates don’t have a leg to stand on. We have no rights, we cannot sue, we have no one looking out for us.
All that changed a lot since we at CAP members banded together. Together we have stood strong and established basic guidelines for programs and enjoyed an environment that is as ethical as an unregulated industry can be.
So many new affiliates come into this industry thinking they have the same rights as they do in thier off-line jobs. We do not. We have no rights. Without forming a community that stands together and enforces some basic rules, we would get screwed to hell and back.
I have always loved this line of work, and I have loved the community of enterprising, inventive, outspoken and smart individuals this business seems to attract.
I have always sought to create and preserve a decent, fair and professional environment for us all to work in, and it has become my mission. No, it’s not all altruistic at all, it ensures that I can work in an industry I can respect and trust, just like everyone of you. I don’t mind going the extra mile to achieve this.
CAP, to me, is not a business, I am strictly volunteering. To me, it is a community of affiliates and affiliate programs trying to make working in this industry free of fraud and theft and find a secure working environment in this lawless niche.
Affiliates made the message board what it is today, and affiliates can break it. It’s all about affiliates, and if anyone thinks that is not so, they are sadly mistaken.
I don’t know much about PAP and what transpired there, it sure looks like some people who have no feeling for message boards engaged in some heavy handed tactics to control activity – that doesn’t work and shouldn’t work in a free community. Gaming affiliates are much too individualistic and smart to stand for such tactics. Big mistakes were made there, but not by me or Lou or the community. And they won’t happen under my watch.
I’ll also say there has been an issue with transparency of CAP’s parent company’s activities, I guess this is for legal reasons.
The parent company provides the platform for us to communicate and solve issues, they are paid for that service and I don’t think that is wrong. They have provided many useful services above and beyond a mere messageboard, and I think we all appreciate that. Without them working with us, we would not have had the influence or organization to achieve the many improvements to affiliate life we did achieve over the years.
But the parent company is not the community, we are. If they created some issues, it is not our fault nor should it impact our business, interactions or the community we have built here.
Since I am not involved in the poker community I don’t know for sure, but from what I hear, the payment issues from card spike are resolved. Whether the parent company of CAP consults programs or not is between that company and the programs. I don’t see it as an affiliate issue, I see it as an operator issue and they will have to figure that out for themselves.
I suggest we concentrate on affiliate issues, make sure that card spike affiliates are really all paid and continue to watch out for each other.
I am saddened by all of this, and I very much hope this can be resolved asap and we can get back to the business of affiliate marketing and keeping things fair for ourselves. :hattip:
@Professor 195404 wrote:
Thanks for the support Daera. Perhaps you’re right. I create too much of a distraction and raise too many questions by even being here anymore. I know many believe I am some kind of monster now and even my old friends have fallen silent in support so I will do whats best for the community and simply move on. Its been a great run and I truly enjoyed it until the last few months but now its a nightmare thats damaging my health and something I dread getting up to. Unfortunately I have already purchased tickets to London and have a hotel room booked so I may be forced to go, but this is my last appearance at the events. We have built a great team and staff that can assist everyone. I sincerely hope everyone finds them more agreeable to work with. It’s time for me to move on.
Professor,
I didn’t mean to be unsupportive. But at this point we can’t just close our eyes and pretend none of this is being posted and talked about all around CAP. So why should we have to pretend it’s not happening when we’re here?
I just think there should be a place where we should be able to privately discuss what’s on our minds that’s being discussed at forums everywhere else right now. Not to be against you, or non-supportive of you, but like Casinomeister and many say… it’s about transparency I guess. Not allowing us to say anything doesn’t help I don’t think. And I do think people are pretty respectful about this overall in their postings here at CAP.
I’ve always had a lot of respect for Casinomeister, and think that all in all, he handles situations pretty fairly for the most part. He has his moments when he has had enough and that’s that…but I for one was kind of happy to see him involved here. At least I didn’t feel like he had a bone to pick with CAP.
Professor, I never seen you as a quitter. Don’t give up. You just need a break.
CAP wouldn’t be CAP without you.
@Daera 195423 wrote:
Professor,
I didn’t mean to be unsupportive. But at this point we can’t just close our eyes and pretend none of this is being posted and talked about all around CAP. So why should we have to pretend it’s not happening when we’re here?
I just think there should be a place where we should be able to privately discuss what’s on our minds that’s being discussed at forums everywhere else right now. Not to be against you, or non-supportive of you, but like Casinomeister and many say… it’s about transparency I guess. Not allowing us to say anything doesn’t help I don’t think. And I do think people are pretty respectful about this overall in their postings here at CAP.
I’ve always had a lot of respect for Casinomeister, and think that all in all, he handles situations pretty fairly for the most part. He has his moments when he has had enough and that’s that…but I for one was kind of happy to see him involved here. At least I didn’t feel like he had a bone to pick with CAP.
CAP wouldn’t be CAP without you.
This is what happened at PAP as all of the CardSpike problems came to light. People would speak their mind and the threads would get deleted and users would get banned. If you want an open forum and respect from your posters you can’t censor everything, especially when it is something like how your own program wasn’t paying affiliates. Sweeping it under the rug isn’t working obviously. It is time to come completely clean, pay and apologize to everyone that got shorted, non paid, had their stats altered and got banned for what appears to be simply speaking out. It is never too late. Being honest will relieve all of this stress and make all of this go away much faster. Casinomeister couldn’t have put it better. Show all of your hands and it can possibly save your business. The longer you wait the more your business will remain damaged and irs rep go down.
Look at PAP now, the forum is a ghosttown and a laughing stock in the industry now because of the management’s rampant banning of anyone that questioned their 3 month late payments from YOUR program. Do you want that here too? All of the people that support Lou and Warren are great and that is what forums are all about. I’m guessing few if any of these people got screwed by CardSpike.
Of course these are my opinions. I’m one of the few old school poker people not banned. While I hope you don’t ban me if you choose to I have copied and screenshot the post so I can share it at Casinomeister, 2+2 and PAL.
@Pokeraddict 195613 wrote:
Look at PAP now, the forum is a ghosttown and a laughing stock in the industry now
This isn’t the 1st time I’ve seen someone post on a forum that PAP is now a ghost town and a laughing stock. It wasn’t accurate the other times it was posted, and it isn’t accurate now. Plenty of activity continues at the PAP forums, and I expect to see the community there continue to grow in 2009.
These kinds of comments are disrespectful and insulting toward the members who do participate at the PAP forum. (And some of those people participate on multiple forums.) I work hard as the admin of that forum, and a lot of real participation continues to go on at the PAP forum. Some of the posters there are incredibly generous with their time and knowledge. I have tremendous respect and fondness for the members there who participate in the forum. People like pokermonger, kingcobrapoker, cooldog, stocks, and catfish have a lot to offer and deserve better than to be referred to collectively as a “laughing stock”. I’m proud to be a member of the community there, proud to lead the community that’s there, and I have enough consideration to not insult other communities in the industry.
And I see 15 people logged into the forum right now. Hardly a ghost town.
I appreciate that people might disagree about how a business might be run, but the lack of respect and courtesy that people are demonstrating almost daily now is reprehensible. I saw several posters at another forum posting about how certain people in the industry are “fatasses” a couple of days ago. But they didn’t limit themselves to just talking about the people they dislike. They had to insult people’s wives too. Those posts were deleted (as they should have been), but they were just one example of the kind of ridiculous, malicious, and thoughtless behavior that’s running rampant right now.
This comment about the PAP forum being a ghost-town and a laughingstock is just another example of thoughtless and malicious behavior.
Guys, this is CAP and not PAP. They are two different communities. I don’t frequent PAP much, so I don’t know exactly what went down over there. I do know Randy as a fair and supportive person and trust that whatever happened at PAP before is not happening since he started as admin.
From what I do know, all the ruckus was about card spike affs being paid. While I have no ties to the poker community, I will try to get this done while in London this week.
I don’t want to see ruckus like that over here, and I don’t want to see mass bannings. But I also want to see issues resolved, and everyone should be able to ask questions and get answers. To me, CAP has always been about resolving issues, in all the years I have been here. I don’t want that to change, it is the most valuable support a community can give to it’s members. Without communities programs would walk all over affs.
So please, discuss but don’t resort to name calling and personal attacks. We are all adults here, and professionals, and this is a professional board. Name calling and personal attacks just have no place here.
If there is an issue, we can identify it and offer suggestrions on how to resolve it and work together on doing so like we have so many times before.
Personally, I miss the Professor already. For 8 or 9 years or so Lou and I have talked about things and thought of solutions. Lou always came through effecting the solutions. It was he who achieved changes in terms and payment of affiliates over and over. You can’t just discount all these years of service, I will always be grateful for this. It has had great influence on how the programs do business with us, and every affiliate, on CAP or anyplace, has profited from it on a very personal level.
The last few months I noticed Lou not being around as much, and I had little contact. I attribute this to too much stress and failing health. Perhaps the message boards and all the other services affiliate media provides just got to be too much to handle, and perhaps all these issues cropped up at the worst possible time.
A few months of issues do not erase years of service. Give credit where credit is due.
Anyway, I am rambling.
Discuss away, but please keep an adult, professional attitude and try to be part of the solution rather than exacerbating the problems. Calling people names never helped a thing.
It would be nice if we were a bit careful of incendiary statements, like calling things a laughing stock or malicious. With these type remarks one thing leads to another, and soon there are bitter arguments and the actual problems lay by the wayside, neglected and unsolved.
We can do better than that, we’ve proven it over and over.
casinobonusguy;195371 wrote:I would love to see some of the affiliate managers share their opinion on this issue.At the end of the day it is their money ,does it bother them?As a season affiliate i give little weight to cap certification ,I see it as an advertising fee program pay.I think it’s fair to say that I’ve never seen cap certification as anything other than an advertising fee.
I think the title of the thread is key when it comes to understanding the benefits of CAP Certification. Everyone knows operators pay to be certified. It’s not a mystery and as the person charged with justifying the cost to the company, the response is fairly simple… We pay to put ourselves in the spotlight – to improve and grow our affiliate programme in as transparent and honest a way as possible.
Whether it be using CAP as a channel to promote our programme and latest offers to affiliates, or using it as a tool to improve the way we do business with our partners, certification allows us to be as transparent as we can be with affiliates. All affiliate programmes (even us!) are blessed with issues at some point in their lifetime that need addressing. Being on CAP (and other forums we pay to be on incidentally), provides us with quantitative and qualitative feedback, allowing us to gauge the importance of proposed changes and encourages us to prioritise them appropriately and persuade the companies we work for to make the required changes.
I’m sure there are some certified programmes out there unsure of the merits of the CAP Audit process that has recently started. I do feel for the guys at Rome in many ways, particularly as it now seems their name may have been discredited unduly. What I am sure of is the CAP community’s underlying will to improve the affiliate marketplace and processes like this take time to get right. Transparency comes at a cost and we’re prepared for our results as and when they come! With regard to EMG’s transparency, I can’t possibly comment as I don’t know the facts. What I’m sure of is that some operators will pay more than others to be certified than others, but there are fair business reasons for this, largely most down to the ability to negotiate. Even if a competitor is listed for free for whatever reason, CAP is what you make of it in any case. The price we pay is insignificant compared to the fantastic relationships that we have struck, courtesy of CAP and everyone who has contributed to its development, and from what we have learned from them on both personal and operational levels. (NB that doesn’t mean you can raise the price!)
Provided that CAP and the other forums we work closely with continue to provide this unique quality of conversation channel, we will continue to play a prominent part on the community message boards.
Until NOW I have maintained a standard rule to NEVER participate in the posting free for alls when it concerns slamming – name calling – berating or otherwise injustly “having a go” at another member of this or any forum. BUT I will say something NOW.
To quote Dominque:In a totally unregulated industry, affiliates don’t have a leg to stand on. We have no rights, we cannot sue, we have no one looking out for us.
All that changed a lot since we at CAP members banded together. Together we have stood strong and established basic guidelines for programs and enjoyed an environment that is as ethical as an unregulated industry can be. We have no rights. Without forming a community that stands together and enforces some basic rules, we would get screwed to hell and back.This is WHY I became a member of CAP
To me – it is and remains a formidable opponent when it comes down to choosing an Affiliate Program. The support I have recieved from CAP members and moderators alike when I have encountered an unscrupulous program or any issue is without a doubt “invaluable”
To me CAP without “the professor” is CAP no more. I have never met the professor or any members on a face to face level as I have not attended any events but, nevertheless I feel part of this community. I find it infuriating that a few rumors and board backbiting gossip could drive someone of this stature away.
Without people like “the professor” – People like me don’t stand a chance in this Industry.
When the Professor and I quote posts “Where’s the Cabbage” I know that I too will be paid!Professor reconsider – We – or more selfishly – I – need you
