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Play by the rules, and report those that don’t. That would be my methods of attack. As a technical guy, I am well aware of screen scraping techniques. Some of the spamindexing techniques have become quite clever, to be quite honest.
The best way to defend is to get the Search Indices to work with us, and make them realize the negative impact that all of these BH’ers have on our revenue streams (including long-term SE survival and longevity), and the integrity of the Internet.
If we can accomlish this, we will accomplish 90 %. Definitely an up-hill battle from here on in.
The answer to all these questions is very simple, to me atleast.
By learning the methods of blackhats you can also fight back at blackhats.Study from blackhat sites, blogs whatever you can find. It’s all about
vulnerabilities, like any other hacking or criminal stuff, these people are
always one step ahead. Otherwise it wouldnt exists.I consider blackhats as pioneers. They search the vulnerabilities, and
other parties try to keep up fixing them. This is how we get bugs out
of systems, since no one spends time these days to test and make their
products perfect. Good example of this would be the movable type preview
button exploit, where one found out how to get backlinks from blogs, without
anyone else knowing about their existance… One also told that it wont work in
type 3.2/3.xx because of javascript, so now all you bloggers just go and update your
movable types.What im trying to say here is that, these guys always come up with new methods, and there aint no one solution to fight them back. Instead you
should try to think it’s a good thing that there is so many of these guys, trying to
be better than other and go out and brag about it, so other people can fix or fight back.RCeo wrote:I consider blackhats as pioneers.Yep, the kind that freeze to death trying to cross a mountain range.
Think about it, this is not a sustainable business model.
It is for short term exploitation of a loophole in an algorhythm.
They will be wiped out because if they were to proliferate, no one would use search engines anymore because all results would be unrelated, irrelevant BS.
Agreed, Dominique, if you are looking at things from a long-term perspective. Many companies do not look at long-term, and that is their downfall (we’ve seen this time and time again). Will the Search Engines be smart enough to recognize this, OR will the lure of the short-term dollar cause them to look the other way ????
Unfortunately, as a betting man, I think they will be clouded into looking at short-term profits first.
RCeo wrote:The answer to all these questions is very simple, to me atleast.
By learning the methods of blackhats you can also fight back at blackhats.Study from blackhat sites, blogs whatever you can find. It’s all about
vulnerabilities, like any other hacking or criminal stuff, these people are
always one step ahead. Otherwise it wouldnt exists.I consider blackhats as pioneers. They search the vulnerabilities, and
other parties try to keep up fixing them. This is how we get bugs out
of systems, since no one spends time these days to test and make their
products perfect. Good example of this would be the movable type preview
button exploit, where one found out how to get backlinks from blogs, without
anyone else knowing about their existance… One also told that it wont work in
type 3.2/3.xx because of javascript, so now all you bloggers just go and update your
movable types.What im trying to say here is that, these guys always come up with new methods, and there aint no one solution to fight them back. Instead you
should try to think it’s a good thing that there is so many of these guys, trying to
be better than other and go out and brag about it, so other people can fix or fight back.On the contrary, most of the members from CAP are webmasters. Some are more technically inclined than others, so be it.
From the real world of the pioneers webmasters is ” the person at a site providing World Wide Web information who is responsible for maintaining the public pages and keeping the Web server running and properly configured”. Over the last year or so honest webmasters are just beginning to take some action. The BH club may come up with new methods, but so will we.
Blackhatters are bottom feeders who will exploit anything value, to make the quick buck. They have given the internet/www nothing but garbage and have slug shit in the faces of the real pioneers. The real pioneers are in Jargon, perhaps take a read. They are the people who are the self devoted pioneers, doing it all for unselfish reasons.
I wouldn’t sit down for lunch with a blackhatter for fear of having my wallet stolen. Because that is all they do is steal, exploit, and disrespect the very foundations of the internet.
I personally need not know how or why from the black hatters. I get my info from the real people out there, doing honest things with their lives.
I was shocked to find out the new Windows Vista is in the process of being tested by three groups, black hatters and malcious hackers, and hackers. I prey the malicious hackers and hackers give an honest opinion, because I can for say the BH community will not.
The blackhatters don’t come up with new methods the only exploit existing methods and perhaps that is all they are good for.
However, I agree there is no 100% cure from this brand of idiots. There will always be something to exploit. If you can offer an answer to this, then you have unlocked the mystery.
I know the answer to this perplexing question, so do the engineers at Google, yahoo and the others.
greek39^* I know already
Maybe the word pioneer was a lil too much (eh), but the bottom line is
that even though these guys use the “loopholes” for their own advantage as
mentioned, i believe that this infamous group still has “some” positive done by
negative actions.I do consider stealing content etc. is not acceptable in no
way, but for an example the methods that seo consultants use are only
a questionable marginal away from what are considered as blackhat seo methods. We are all here for profit, right? I don’t believe any type of business
in internet wish to sit in the sandbox, just because they don’t know the
workarounds.All im offering is just another type of view to problems, but believe
me i also would send all these blackhats to jail with murderers and live happily ever after. Still with PR 0 in the sandbox receiveng useless newsletters from
the cashville though.– most people do, just because they are able!
Dominique wrote:Yep, the kind that freeze to death trying to cross a mountain range.Heh, or maybe the type that comes with rifles and bibles, rape and steal the lands of original people, use slavery and innocence of people to build society,
becomes majority, and after years of domination and abuse trips to their
own weakness and lack of moral and becomes minority. :guitar:Yes, internet used to be so innocent and beatiful place. Things tend to change
when theres alot of people around.I think my perception of this is different
I don’t see the spamming and content theft, and things like that, as i’m sure many of you do, which i don’t approve of
I see someone who has, for example, a legitimate casino affiliate site, and has figured out a way to place his site atop the Google search results for terms like online casinos, etc, by using deceptive means like manipulating the search engines, or just being an exceptional computer programmer, kinda like those guys who figured out how to cheat the casino games
Although morally unethical, it’s still a talent that deserves respect, and takes some skill to pull off
This part of it i can accept, and see the reasoning for, but the other stuff is not cool, so maybe you should categorize blackhatters instead of just saying if one person does one thing, then he will likely do all the other things, because i don’t think thats true
I like seo, and we have to separate optimizers from thieves and spammers. I hate scrapers because there is no art in stealing content. But I like the optimizing game. I can say to you that in these last years I’ve seen all kinds of tools, and some even gave them to me, so that I could analyse them, but I never used them because of a thing called conscience. I’m not desperate for money. I’m an honest person. I could make lots of money with some techniques (not scraping or spamming, for me that is a crime) but even those are too gray hat for me.
Maybe some day I write a book with what I learned all these years.nick777 wrote:Although morally unethical, it’s still a talent that deserves respect, and takes some skill to pull offNo, it doesn’t.
Not at all.
It takes a little money to buy programs is all.
Dominique wrote:No, it doesn’t.Not at all.
It takes a little money to buy programs is all.
How u figure Dom
If there was a progy that could put u on top of Google for the keywords of your choice then i’m sure people would be lining up to buy it
There are a lot of programs for bh. Just do a some google research and you will see that a few of the more technical bhs are actually making money by selling their scripts.
Everybody else just jumps on the bandwaggon spends a few hundreds to run the bh script. That doesn´t really require any skill at all.
They are.
It’s proliferating.
That’s why I am bitching.
I’ll be here long after they are gone, but they are an annoying pest polluting search results and ticking off possible new players when they can’t fnd answers to their questions but these crappy sites instead. They are a pimple on the axx on the industry, and quickly growing into a big boil.
They don’t bother sites like mine, I am way too established.
They kill newer sites, keep them from rising because they have a solid barrier in the serps.
They also hurt middle aged sites by using varous ways to get them in trouble with google.
But most importantly, they pixx off potential players. They don’t care, they count on numbers. If each site pixxes off 50 players and one clicks, and they have 10,000 sites, they are happy.
The industry, all of us, loses 50 potential players to give those guys one click.
That’s what’s wrong with this, apart from the complete absence of ethics.
Dominique wrote:They are.It’s proliferating.
That’s why I am bitching.
I’ll be here long after they are gone, but they are an annoying pest polluting search results and ticking off possible new players when they can’t fnd answers to their questions but these crappy sites instead. They are a pimple on the axx on the industry, and quickly growing into a big boil.
They don’t bother sites like mine, I am way too established.
They kill newer sites, keep them from rising because they have a solid barrier in the serps.
They also hurt middle aged sites by using varous ways to get them in trouble with google.
But most importantly, they pixx off potential players. They don’t care, they count on numbers. If each site pixxes off 50 players and one clicks, and they have 10,000 sites, they are happy.
The industry, all of us, loses 50 potential players to give those guys one click.
That’s what’s wrong with this, apart from the complete absence of ethics.
This has got to be one of the best posts I’ve read :allears: “A pimple on the axx of the industry”…..that’s priceless and 100% true along with the rest of the post!
Sorry to say, but this business has, is and always will be polluted.
From CAP certified affiliate programs to players the entire scene is
behind a shady cloud often easily compared to what internet porn has, ask the gods
(search engines).Luckily, people know this and as much as they love sex they love gambling,
and because of that they will always hunt for a better place to get kicks.
I believe the players who wish to play for real money even enjoy finding a
portal of choice through all the crap there is, just like you like finding that crucial
info you needed for your success
(yes, that secret you won’t share, but like to brag you know about).Just do what you can do to get rid of blackhats against you, and let others
do the same. once you got the resource and guns to really fight them, and
wont get crushed yourself, then join dominique and others in war for better
tommorrow.
