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Hi.
Really I think the Support from Referback is something faulty. The recent sent code for the Giveway pop-up doesn’t work and the Landing Pages of The Osbournes neither works well. Cobus know this issue.
…but the payments are punctual.
They can improve… of course!Sirius,
We have gone around this issue with you many times, both Cobus and I, and finally it was suggested that you take up the issue of the bonus system/terms with those who are in charge of it – the casinos themselves.
We are sourcing a contact for you at Belle Rock to assist you with the questions of dates and bonus play.
Shane
Thanks BonusCenter,
Any time we can we’re more than happy to help
Shane
This is a serious problem which you obviously don’t seem to understand. I never contacted or heard from you about this. I think you must be getting confused with something else. If you don’t think it’s anything do to with you, then that says alot.
Affiliates were never told when the new rule, which effectively means players can only claim the sign up bonus at one casino now, came into effect. I’m sure you still cross market them and players seem to still be given the bonus but then any wins are voided (and presumably losing players are not refunded). This potentially fraudulant term, which is very well hidden in the general terms, has only been introduced recently and maybe I shouldn’t be surprised.
@Shane 151440 wrote:
Sirius,
We have gone around this issue with you many times, both Cobus and I, and finally it was suggested that you take up the issue of the bonus system/terms with those who are in charge of it – the casinos themselves.
We are sourcing a contact for you at Belle Rock to assist you with the questions of dates and bonus play.
Shane
BelleRock have until 20th February to resolve the player issues (affiliate managers may not think it is anything to do with them, but it should be). I have already removed the casino banner ads and also removed them from the top casinos list. This deadline doesn’t just mean the dumping of BelleRock but also Microgaming, for the same reason as five years ago soon after my site started. I had Microgaming blacklisted for the infamous Gaming Club incident because that casino was heavily linked to the software company. Thankfully, it was resolved within weeks, but casinos seem to have forgotten how to behave again. This time I’m waiting for a resolution first before any action to blacklist.
What resolution are you seeking Sirius? You want them to modify their player terms and conditions? Its obnvious you are angry, but I am unsure whats set you off and why you feel all Microgaming casinos need to be taken to task for a Belle Rock policy.
I’m not angry at all, just can’t believe how stupid they are. They now have multiple player issues. If it was another group, I would see this as an attempt to keep their business afloat, as was the case with many groups including Casino Rewards a few years back (in their case it was retroactive application of terms) which is why they are blacklisted.
BelleRock may have been hit by fraud rings but this is no way to behave. You obviously haven’t looked into the problem much. Look at what I wrote (one of multiple problems) and you will see how unethical their behaviour is. It is not something likely to happen with a thriving casino business but it’s a possibility obviously that they may be trying to get back at bonus hunters so haven’t learnt from five years ago.
I don’t see a problem with one bonus instead of one for each property.
Are players made aware of this?
@Dominique 152301 wrote:
I don’t see a problem with one bonus instead of one for each property.
Are players made aware of this?
This was a recent rule but affiliates weren’t made aware. Also, there are other ways they are trying to steal money from players. If you look at the way they have the flash EzBonus instructional demo on the sites (where it says you can withdraw anytime and forfeit the remaining bonus- as this is how EZbonus was always advertised). This isn’t so any more as you will forfeit all winnings!
If it was another group, I would think it was a response to business problems. It is highly connected to the softwre company due to The Gaming Club.
I have a suspicion Casino Rewards are at fault as they are now thriving (players not knowing how they behaved fraudulantly a few years ago) and are now apparently advising the Microgaming Team regarding player fraud.
Example of two ways players are being stolen from:
1. Player sign up at another BelleRock site after heavy cross-promotion. They read about the Sign Up offer and claim the bonus which is given despite BelleRock knowing they are not eligible under the new rules (if you read the previous description you will see you most likely will not be able to realise this even when reading the terms). The player can’t win. If the player loses, they are not refunded. If the player wins, they get back their deposit.
2. Player reads about EzBonus on the site and understands from the demo that they can withdraw anytime. In the Casino software, the banking section allows withdrawels before the wagering requirements are met (as this was always one of the points of EzBonus). After some play and some bonus released the player withdraws, as the banking lets them and just states that the remaining bonus will be zeroed. Later the player has their winnings voided too be BelleRock. Funnily enough, Casino Rewards was the only group initially that didn’t allow withdrawels and voided winnings if withdrawels were made, going against the EzBonus system and now almost all are doing it.
Holy moly…
After months of waiting I was finally able to withdraw my balance and received my funds from Riverbelle today! This whole oddyssey cost me quite some nerves and plenty of time, so I am very glad to have finally received my money from this place.
This was a nightmare, really…!@Sirius 152302 wrote:
This was a recent rule but affiliates weren’t made aware. Also, there are other ways they are trying to steal money from players. If you look at the way they have the flash EzBonus instructional demo on the sites (where it says you can withdraw anytime and forfeit the remaining bonus- as this is how EZbonus was always advertised). This isn’t so any more as you will forfeit all winnings!
If it was another group, I would think it was a response to business problems. It is highly connected to the softwre company due to The Gaming Club.
I have a suspicion Casino Rewards are at fault as they are now thriving (players not knowing how they behaved fraudulantly a few years ago) and are now apparently advising the Microgaming Team regarding player fraud.
Shane
There is some confusion here over the intention of the rule you’re referring to.
The intention of the rule is to safe guard the casino from abusive play only – however in doing so it also protects you, the affiliate, from abusive play.
Players who are genuine players who naturally, or by cross selling, move between our brands are allowed to receive the sign on offers at the new casinos.
There is no reason the casinos would do anything to deter a genuine player from playing at the casino – however bonus abusers hurt not only the casinos bottom line but also affiliate ROI.
@Sirius 152303 wrote:
Example of two ways players are being stolen from:
1. Player sign up at another BelleRock site after heavy cross-promotion. They read about the Sign Up offer and claim the bonus which is given despite BelleRock knowing they are not eligible under the new rules (if you read the previous description you will see you most likely will not be able to realise this even when reading the terms). The player can’t win. If the player loses, they are not refunded. If the player wins, they get back their deposit.
2. Player reads about EzBonus on the site and understands from the demo that they can withdraw anytime. In the Casino software, the banking section allows withdrawels before the wagering requirements are met (as this was always one of the points of EzBonus). After some play and some bonus released the player withdraws, as the banking lets them and just states that the remaining bonus will be zeroed. Later the player has their winnings voided too be BelleRock. Funnily enough, Casino Rewards was the only group initially that didn’t allow withdrawels and voided winnings if withdrawels were made, going against the EzBonus system and now almost all are doing it.
1] My previous post answers this concern – players who are genuine casino players will receive the bonus and be allowed to cash out any winnings which are due to them.
2] Again the description you gave is not 100% accurate. Bonuses are given as one item (in land based terms it would like receiving one chip), as you meet play through requirements the bonus value moves from your Bonus Balance to your Cash Balance. This movement allows you to track whether or not you have met the full wagering requirements – without having to check Play Check all the time.
A player cannot however receive a 100 credit bonus, wager through 60 credits and then try cash out the 60 and leave the remaining 40 credits behind.
The comp the player received is 100 credits and needs to be played through fully before it can be cashed out.
@Shane 152533 wrote:
1] My previous post answers this concern – players who are genuine casino players will receive the bonus and be allowed to cash out any winnings which are due to them.
2] Again the description you gave is not 100% accurate. Bonuses are given as one item (in land based terms it would like receiving one chip), as you meet play through requirements the bonus value moves from your Bonus Balance to your Cash Balance. This movement allows you to track whether or not you have met the full wagering requirements – without having to check Play Check all the time.
A player cannot however receive a 100 credit bonus, wager through 60 credits and then try cash out the 60 and leave the remaining 40 credits behind.
The comp the player received is 100 credits and needs to be played through fully before it can be cashed out.
1] Your explanation confirms what I thought. Basically, you are fraudulantly denying players’ winnings for unverifiable reasons. If the players aren’t 100% sure of what qualifies or disqualifies him, then you can’t discriminate between them. It’s also open for abuse because the casino can deny a player who wins big for unverifiable reasons. The only difference is now you have a term to allow what you’re doing but it is not clear and you are still cross marketing. When was it decided to add this term and also could you tell me who decided on this? This term is really hidden and confusing and even people who read it may not understand it (on first reading I would have thought it meant multiple accounts at the *same* casino only). I have heard the Fraud department at Casino Rewards are advising Microgaming now. This group have been blacklisted on my site for fraudulant practises towards players from five years ago. This included retroactive application of terms regarding wagering requirements and also bait and switch of offering a bonus to procure a deposit but not honouring the deal after the player deposits. There is no chance of that being resolved because they did this for years afterwards.
There is no way to know whether a player is ‘abusing a bonus’ as you put it. There is no actual gameplay that makes it obvious, so whoever is deciding on this will make many wrong decisions. A player might sign up to take advantage of all the ones on offer but this isn’t enough to deny his winnings. If you offer it and actually give the bonus, then you can only deny winnings if it the reasons are 100% verifiable and players should be clear from the start what is expected of them and what isn’t. You are basically misleading and stealing from players. It seems like the casino management haven’t learnt from the past and are new to the whole thing.
2] I was talking about withdrawing the deposit associated with the bonus and not the bonus itself (I know how EZbonus works). At the moment, your terms say this will void winnings whereas your EZbonus flash demonstration on your site says otherwise. This was one of the main points of the EZbonus as it didn’t disadvantage the player who maybe wouldn’t normally take a bonus due to wagering requirements and allows them to sacrifice the bonus anytime (but still receive some prorated with their wagering). It was always how it worked apart from one or two groups but now it seems all Microgaming casinos are going back on it. That’s not the point, the point is that the demonstration on your sites is wrong and players used to the system might not know of the change either.
