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IceMan these sites tend to promote bonus abuse, tend to work CPA and tend to turn up here and elsewhere complaining when they arent paid by the casinos due to fraud.
When people play at a casino with the objective of collecting free gifts and making the minimum wagers required to do so they are generally not real gamblers or players, they are bargain/gift hunters.
Our business is based around the model of attracting real depositing players to the casinos who’s primary objective is to gamble online for entertainment. These players have real value for the casinos and we are paid accordingly.
I dissagree Professor, we give gifts of Neteller cash at times to reward players and we do not claim any CPA programs. I feel it is important to reward players now and then. Not all are fly by night webmasters is what my point is.
No, Bonustreak not all sites that offer player gifts are attempting to do CPA scams, but you have to admit there are MANY that do. Unfortunately that does create a somewhat negative perception of gifting for affiliates that are honest.
Its just like CPA deals, the vast MAJORITY of affiliates that operate under the CPA model are honest.
The few BAD “affiliates” that try to abuse CPA programs make it difficult on the honest affiliates and casinos who try to work CPA.
Yeah for sure I agree with that Professor :la-de-da:
It’s a slippery slope on several counts.
I too will reward bigger players of any type.
But I do not base my business on it, I do not do CPA, I do not use that as the salespoint for my sites. I do not use it for aquisition, only for retention.
There is a big difference.
What happens when you use it for aquisition is what the professor said, you attract a freebie crowd that does not make a good customer for the casino.
You also attract a criminal element among affiliates as shown in rake back – people teaching players to use multiple signups, and promisong presents and then disappearing and leaving the players high and dry.
It is not a good business model for aquisition at all, from any point of view.
It does work for retention of good players though.
Thanks for the info…good points all around. I was planning to build another site to compete with pokersourceonline.com (strictly a poker affilate site). They say they have sent over $2 million in gifts/money to their members. If you look at their site, it seems they have a very active community and new members all the time. It looks like the online poker rooms are happy with the business they bring them. A project like this would be more customer intensive since you have to ship things out and have customer support but it seems very profitable. Any thoughts on whether trying to do this is a good idea? I know there are many smaller sites that give out gifts for online poker sign ups but Pokersourceonline seems to be the Wal-Mart of them.
I’m glad I came across this community…I’m learning so much…thank you!
Dom how are you able to reward your big players, how do you know who they are and how do you contact them? Do the Casinos give you this detailed info?
brian
No, I just sprinkled an invitation for larger players to contact me here and there on my site, letting them know that I will do this.
I have had a couple of people contact me and am following through with them.
Not all of my players notice this and I need to start putting it more places. I have just concentrated pretty much on one game so far.
Personally, I really don’t like the definition of bonus hunter or gift hunters by casinos. I think 80% of online gamblers have an intention of being a bonus hunter, but most of the real players also come from them.
For example,
I am new to affiliate program, but I am not new to online casino . I played online casino for more than 2 years, in the first 3 month, I just made a USD300 initial deposit to earn USD6000, I played online casinos one by one like a bonus hunter. But now I become a big player, my average bet per hand is 250USD, usually I bet 1000, 2000,5000,10,000USD per hand. Yesterday, I lost 14000 USD in cyptologic software casinos in just 10 minutes. And I lost 25000usd in the whole month.
Believed it or not, with the time passed, bonus hunter will become real money players like me.In my opinion, as long as there are enough traffic and players , casino don’t need care who is real player or who is bonus hunter. 80% of players will be loser in casino games,so do poker rooms.
So far, 888 group is the best group I ‘ve ever seen in marketing. They just drive the players as much as they can ,they seldom define a player or affiliate as a bonus hunter or gift hunter, and always give players and affiliate general bonus, finally ,they succeed and become the world’s largest group.
I also never see a group which always define a player as bonus hunter can become large and successful.Just my 2 cents
starbet wrote:I bet 1000, 2000,5000,10,000USD per hand. Yesterday, I lost 14000 USD in cyptologic software casinos in just 10 minutes. And I lost 25000usd in the whole month.You should go to my website and sign up at some casinos thru my links. I appreciate it :tongue:
gamblingguide wrote:You should go to my website and sign up at some casinos thru my links. I appreciate it :tongue:Ditto!
Dominique wrote:You also attract a criminal element among affiliates as shown in rake back – people teaching players to use multiple signups, and promisong presents and then disappearing and leaving the players high and dry.It is not a good business model for aquisition at all, from any point of view.
It does work for retention of good players though.
Players don’t need to be taught to make multiple signups. Anyone who knows how to turn a computer on can work out if they set up a different email address they can get a signup bonus again.
The multiple account abuses you object to are almost all in the CPA-gift sector.
Rakeback is all about retaining good players by giving them a share of the revenue they create for the site. I have rakeback on some of my poker accounts, and that means I stick around at those sites once I clear the signup bonus, instead of go and sign up at one of the dozen other sites that launched this month
Rakeback is EXACTLY what you do with your good players, only more formalised and fairer because it’s not just the squeaky wheels getting the grease.
Irrational opposition to rakeback from casino affiliates is hurting poker players and making it possible for shady characters (if any exist – I’ve never come accross any since it is better to keep 5% of a year of play than 25% of a month’s) to leave players high and dry.
If you really cared about the players, you would be trying to make rakeback an established part of the poker industry. That way, no one would be getting ripped off.
Also, how is being left high and dry by an empty rakeback promise different from signing up through a non rakeback link? In both cases, the player gets nothing.
I think the best thing to do is reward your players with invites to private freerolls…at least you are giving them something and mostly it doesn’t cost you anything.
People are happy just to feel included in a community where people are friendly and communicate with each other.
cashmirrors wrote:Irrational opposition to rakeback from casino affiliates is hurting poker players and making it possible for shady characters (if any exist – I’ve never come accross any since it is better to keep 5% of a year of play than 25% of a month’s) to leave players high and dry.If you really cared about the players, you would be trying to make rakeback an established part of the poker industry. That way, no one would be getting ripped off.
I understand the point and share in your frustration over the matter, but the issue isn’t that affiliates don’t want the player to be rewarded; rather, the point of contention is in the delivery of the rewards. The sites themselves are in a much better position to allocate loyalty rewards and rebates than the affiliate are in many cases, including rakeback. Some sites, like Poker Rewards and Poker Champs do just that. The real concern is that by creating rakeback as a norm and placing the onus of tracking on the affiliate, it creates a lot of potential problems.
Also, it certainly wasn’t “irrational” casino affiliates who led Party, among others, to discontinue rakeback. It’s easy to point to that, but there is a larger issue related to shifts in the industry as it matures. When rakeback is done (essentially through trust) with an affiliate, it creates potential problems that may ultimately come back to the site (who cannot always fix the problem to the players’ satisfaction.) I think most everyone believe players should be rewarded; the real issue is how these rewards are allocated. Yes, we have an obligation to provide value-added for the players we refer, but I’m not sure that affiliate-driven rakeback is the answer.
The sites themselves are in a much better position to allocate loyalty rewards and rebates than the affiliate are in many cases, including rakeback. Some sites, like Poker Rewards and Poker Champs do just that.
So does Superior Poker.
No, changing your email alone will not allow you to open multiple accounts in most cases. If you do that, you have postponed detection until you try to withdraw only. Then you lose. It does take a little more to escape detection, I was just reading up on current methods for opening multiple accounts yesterday.
Most poker rooms themselves are not happy with rake back at all – all the ones I talked to about it have told me about the pain in the butt they have with players constantly wanting to change affiliates. First they want to move to a rake back aff, then one who offers higher rake backs, then one who offers higher rake backs and gifts, and so on.
Rake back and non rake back don’t mix. It’s one or the other, or you are losing.
The thing is that you don’t know how much you are losing to room spamming – there is absolutely no way to tell. You also don’t know how many of your players talk the room into putting them under another affiliate, and how many go through the process of opening an undetectable second account.
It is best to make up your mind and stick with it – do or do not advertise rake back rooms.
I am not so involved in this anymore because I know that the trend is dying down already because the rooms themselves are getting annoyed at the associated problems. There may be a few who will survive on this business model, many more who will just ignore it and hope it will go away, and an increasing number will actively forbid it.
In my opinion it is not a working business model in the long run and by now I am already satisfied that it will die down on it’s own.
Rooms that offer rake back on their own, or in better words, proper incentives to high rake players such as rebates and loyalty rewards, will rule because they make life easy for all. Retaining high rollers has always been an art, and rooms that do not learn how to practise it will lose their best players to other rooms anyway. Poker Rewards, Poker champs and Superior Poker have the right idea.
The list of non-rakeback Pokers, as last updated, was:
Party Poker
Paradise Poker
Superior Poker
Breakaway Poker
Poker Rewards
Golden Tiger Poker
Virtual City Poker
Vegas Lounge Poker
Poker Room
Pacific Poker
Poker.com
Royal Cardroom.comI think free enterprise will take care of this one.
