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The only union I’d be prepared to join is one that was willing to make me a life time dictator – that way I’d be sure to agree with every decision. But I don’t think that’d be very popular …
lol and that is the problem we all want to dictate for ourselves as said we are all entrepreneurs and have our own ways of doing things. You explained it very well about a certain program may work great and pay on time for affiliate A, where as for affiliate B he/she cannot seem to be paid or even get a response to emails and then there is affiliate C who is very sympathetic to the cause but cannot join the fight due to a contact on a media buy, so this affiliate would be booted from the union.
I don’t mind paying fees to a program that is voluntary and at my own choice, I would not join a union I am sorry to say.
There have been more then a few blacklist link ups over the years and as Dom said every single one were effective and each and every time these took please nothing ever was said about those webmasters that did not join in for whatever reasons they may have had.
I have to disagree about all of us being at odds with one another, I have several good friends that I have made in this industry and even though we are each others competition we get along great and find ways to help each other out all the time.
First before bashing the thing I figured it would be discussed. I am thinking of a bit of a hybrid union. Not such an one-size fits all scenario, as perhaps many people here are thinking. New things take time to discuss. Maybe it wouldn’t work. Maybe it would. Never know until its tried.
I figured something like this would happen.
A “suggested” course of action, which would be voluntary. If a person is making some money from a program, and its how they are surviving, they wouldn’t really be asked to back the “motion” for lack of a better word – it would just be a Group of people able to express their opinions in numbers.
The idea would be something like:
Poll: will you strike cpays for failure to pay or something (hypothetical)
72% of members say yes, 28% say no.
We issue a statement saying x number of affiliates and websites will be boycotting your program.
Pretty simple, yet effective way to deal with things. It basically puts a voice to all the blacklists, nothing else.
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Sorry, I didnt know that we were so divided.
Cheers,
me.@TheGooner 158222 wrote:
The only union I’d be prepared to join is one that was willing to make me a life time dictator – that way I’d be sure to agree with every decision. But I don’t think that’d be very popular …
:tongue:Haha, yes, ditto.
Tarzan, I don’t think such a union would add anything really. Programs react one of two ways to pressure: fix the problem or run and hide. It seperates the grain from the chaff and works just fine.
Not sure if you were around for the forced cookie revolt, or the spyware revolt, or the search engine spam revolt, or the life time contract revolt. But these laid the basis for the emergence of APCW and AGD and they laid the base for the very good negotiating position we find our selves in today. It wasn’t always that way.
When the chips fall, we do stick together. The biggest negotiating weapon we have is publicity. When problems seep into the player forums, the casinos take notice and fix things.
Real causes that affect the community find the traction for action as is. Most recently Grand Prive was confronted for unfair cross promoting and they fixed it. When a program doesn’t track correctly, APCW will catch it (they could likely use some volunteer help for more volume). If a program sneeks new T&Cs in, AGD will catch it.
Disgruntled individuals who ran into some personal problem with a program get support from CAP. CAP intervenes and brings the program and the person together.
This pretty much covers the basic problems, without forcing individuals into communal action.
What you describe could be easily done with a poll. Casinos read CAP and Casinomeister and glimpse what they can at GPWA. They don’t like negative publicity among webmasters – They know they lose.
I think this voice already exists, and it has proven it’s clout many times over the years.
Whether you have a union or not, some programs will refuse to cooperate and operate without main stream approval. Nothing will force them to comply, they can do as they wish. That is why information is so important. And we have that at our fingertips, just use the search function.
Steve, I really think we cooperate a lot more than you give us credit for. The results speak for themselves, we have a much better working environment in a lot of ways.
I think a union will just slow things down, people will argue, endless debates will take place over what the rules should be and I think it will prove to be divisive.
Self employed people and businesses form associations, not unions. And I consider CAP to be sort of an association.
Self interest aside, it would be a major sacrafice to pull banners, especially if the program is one of the affiliates better performers. I know I would feel it, however I like to think outside the box somewhat. If or when the UIGEA gets repealed and/or the USA enters this industry it would be beneficial to have one unified voice, whether that be a union, a party or an association.
I would imagine it would only take one or two instances before programs get the message regarding sneeking in predatory terms and such actions would finally be a thing of the past.
There seems to be little desire to have a ‘union’.
The thing about being self-employed, and, even more in the casino affiliate industry, is that it is largely governed by self-interest.
Where the ‘self-interest’ of a large body of people coincides, then things can get changed but otherwise, it’s just not going to happen.
I was in the GPWA during those major spyware battles and enjoyed watching Dom spearhead those issues. I was new kid on the block then, shouting for a boycott of those groups that were using malware to launch pop-ups on our portals. I removed myself from that group when things got really bad because my sites were attacked. I was google bowled with the rest of you, and I definitely watched with glee when the blacklists did their job. I have been an affiliate since 1999 and have well over 100 websites. I was so pleased to be told about this site and was very happy with what I found when I got here, and the friends I am making / made, etc. I am a proud member of CAP.
And I agree with everyone here – I don’t think that it’s in anyones interest to have their site be “controlled” by a union. I would not agree to such a thing either. Primarily, I was thinking that it would be nice to get a unified voice to state what % and perhaps provide a list (by choice) of websites that will no longer grace their banners.
In conclusion, I believe that a unified voice might speed things up and be a bit more effective. And I also found out that “Union” is a very charged word around here, so perhaps it’s just best to let this lie where it is for right now.
I am happy that everyone is at least able to discuss this and many thanks to those who expressed openly their honest opinions.
Best regards and happy $$ making!
We could hold votes here in such cases… no reason why not that I can see.
i think instead of a union, it would be easier and more beneficial for everyone to clearly establish a link between CAP, AGD and APCW…
not sure what would be the best way of doing it, but a CAP certification (excellent for communication with programs), a thumbs up from AGD (T&Cs reviewed as favourable and not predatory), and verified independent tracking by APCW (you want those links to work) would put an affiliate program on top of the pyramid of recommended programs.
cheers.
Steve, I really think we cooperate a lot more than you give us credit for. The results speak for themselves, we have a much better working environment in a lot of ways.
ya that might be true. I get frustrated on this subject at just about all sides because I realize how much it truly hurts us as affs to have such an arm’s length attitude towards what seems to be a growing separation between a couple or three groups of affs.
and what created this gap was not so much what one aff did to another but rather what one aff didn’t like about the way a forum owner or prominent member handled a particular situation.
The situation then blossomed from that point to hard feelings and promises of separation which is how we ended up with these clans that are made up of both those just caught in the middle and those who are for whatever reason die-hard loyal to their chosen forum.
I would be very satisfied to see our situation blend into a smoother working line of communication between the several entities so that for instance … if program X were to try and add predatory terms in a retro approach that Lou could pick up the phone or send an email to the other forum owners that this is going on and we need to have the masses act in a somewhat orderly fashion of action against the program in question.
In that situation there’s little chance any aff is going to have reason for NOT wanting to see this happen. And it works so much better when the programs feel the pinch all at once rather than have the trickle grow and in the meantime we all lose valuable time that could have been spent towards better endeavors.
Right now there is no such idea or plan in place (to my knowledge anyway) where such an action could be implemented in the timely fashion I mentioned above. Last time we all took action I was impressed that all affs DID come together (for most part) and effect change … but I was also frustrated to know it could have happened in a better time frame if we could all get along together just enough to have a communication line open at all times rather than have “word spread” via those of us affs who jump between the forums.
Because that my friends is largely how word gets from one forum to another.
And its not all bad. My point is made via the recent threads where you’ll see a link to a matter at one of the other forums. That is both proof we are in at least some subtle way communicating between the forums and yet at same moment it illustrates my point about how long it takes for things to jump from one forum to another.
What I am constantly fearing is that communication will get worse between aff forums because right now they are as thin as I ever care to see them.
LOL. nice post Splinter.
I guess we were thinking the same at the same time.
Many people are members at two forums anyway. Some of us have shown plenty of good will but can’t surmount old resentments that fester.
I think the information exchange works pretty well, most stuff travels within a day.
AGD and APCW have forums here at CAP and all their info is posted publicly and constantly updated.
I know I get my information from there and base decisions on it, too. They also each have their own sites and anyone can go there to look, which I am sure they will appreciate.
But the idea of polls asessing opinions is a good one, and we should try it next time something crops up.
