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PokerProf we are looking into it now. Please bear in mind most of the CAP and PAP team have been overseas the last ten days in Cyprus. I just got back last night. Let us catch up on whats going on and we will decide whats appropriate.
Sure, I appreciate that. The OP in the 2+2 thread I linked to explains the facts extremely succintly.
I’d urge all affiliates to read that post and then consider whether or not they’d like to be associated with Absolute and UB.
Today UB officially acknowledged that “former” owners (no one really knows who exactly owns UB/AP to the best of my knowledge) could see opponents hole cards and that high stakes players were targetted for millions over a 21 month period.
http://www.ultimatebet.com/poker-news/2008/may/nionio-findings
I think one of the Mods at 2+2 puts it best wrt this press release:
Unfortunately, as I will show, this press release is irrefutable evidence that UltimateBet will say anything (truth, half-truth, or lie) if they think that it will be believed and will make them look good. This press release is filled with misleading statements that, when further analyzed and explained, will show that this criminal organization has absolutely no intention of changing its ways. This press release also shows that this company has no integrity and no respect for its customers whatsoever and that it will continue to do whatever is necessary (including criminal action, fraud, and lies) if those actions will result in ability to convince players that they are an honest poker site worthy of the players’ money and trust. Due to the fact that they continue to cover up what happened and continue to lie about the depth of the cheating and the structure of their company, anyone who would trust this site or *gasp* endorse this site is a complete fool.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=214625
Does CAP, or any other affiliate, really want to associate themselves with UB/AP?
bumpety bump
Did CAP look into this yet? I see they are still certified. 🙁
Guys, these things take time and I’m sure they’re onto it. Hold onto your hats…if all the evidence is correct then I’m sure theyll be dealt with accordingly and presently.
Replies!!!!!! I was beginning to think no one else here really cared about this.
I can appreciate that CAP don’t want to make any hasty decisions.
The facts are laid out succintly in the links provided.
@ThePokerProf 163479 wrote:
agfdsjhdggfsakfhsdk, CAP pleeeeeeease can you stop promoting Absolute/UB poker rooms?
The owners have been proven cheats, stealing millions of dollars from players.
UB: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=208114
Absolute: http://www.absolutedetectives.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/OverviewI stopped promoting them many months ago.
I remember signing up, sending traffic, but stats didn’t look right.
So I followed one of my Absolute affiliate links… signed up, bet and lost $50, and it was NOT tracked.
So I got rid of them and havent looked back.I removed them a while ago.
It’s too bad they don’t seem to be able to get their sh!t together.
Yeah I’m thinking of taking them down as well. Since the merge with UB, AP, and Vegas 247 the stats have been terrible. I was making more money on AP alone then all three together now a days. Something just doesn’t seem right about that. The only reason I still have them up is because a few of my sites target U.S based players and they make it a bit easier for them to deposit.
I’ve already got pages up warning players about them. That said, I probably have some of their links still on my poker sites. Poker has been so bad I just walked away and its obviously not getting better.
Any word on “improvements” to Absolute//UltimateBet?
They have a decent blackjack program and would consider marketing them if their issues are resolved.Guys at this point we feel like Absolute Poker is taking the necessary steps to ensure that something like this does not occur again.
The same fraudulent PLAYERS (Ex employees and prior owner) that took advantage of a security loophole at Ultimate Bet were responsible for the incidents which took place here. Those security breachs have been fixed at both properties and the company is actively pursuing legal action against those involved.
All effected players are being made whole and management does take the problems very seriously.
It’s a sad commentary on human nature that for as long as there has been gambling there have been players who cheat. Casinos and Poker Rooms both online and offline spend billions of dollars a year on security to minimize the cheating, but there is no 100% fool proof method to stop it.
Have there been cheats at highly regarded poker rooms like Binions, Belagio, Mirage,Venetian, MGM Grand or Caesers Palace? Absolutely. Has there been colusion between dealers or even pit bosses and cheating players? Absolutely. Does the general public demand that every Casino or Poker Room which has had cheaters attack their business be closed? No.
Is it fair or reasonable to try to close down an online operator for the same problems, even if they do everything they can to repair the damages done? I dont think so. If you do then by all means drop promotion of that casino or poker room, but dont expect everyone else who plays there or promotes them to follow suit.
The other issue we face at CAP/PAP is we are working with Chipleader, the affiliate program, and they had no hand in any of this at all. Why penalize them when they have always been very supportive of our community?
If the issue was Chipleader was shaving stats or stealing players from affiliate accounts and there was ubstantive evidence to support a claim then that would be grounds for immediate decertification. That isn’t what happened.
Pokerkeep I know you are probably not going to agree with this and not everyone is going to be happy with our decision, but I hope you understand it.
Anyone who is NOT comfortable promoting these brands should drop them and move to Poker Rooms you prefer to work with. It’s your business and you have to do what you think is best for your players and we support that.
For the players and affiliates that do continue to work with Chipleader or play at these poker rooms we support your decision.
Personally I do not feel like my players are in dire straits if they play at either Absolute Poker or Ultimate Bet. I also appreciate the fact that they stayed with US players and affiliates throughout the UIGEA storm and didnt take the easy route and head for shore like many others did. I value that loyalty and it weighs heavily in my decision on which Poker Rooms I agressively promote and which ones I dont.
Thats where we are at.
Thanks Professor for the clear thoughts and the in-depth examination.
I feel more comfortable now to continue promoting Chipleader properties.
Thanks again
