- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
nice domains! good luck with these JP domains? Japanese market is HOT if only we know how to penetrate it.
Thanks I got a few low offers but I understand some want to invest in the Japanese market but aren’t sure about some things.
I guess for me it’s the opposite. I know about the Japanese market, & I got some premium Japanese generic domains. I don’t know a thing about gambling yet.
Perhaps I’ll offer some services to members later since my job is online marketing.
The IDNs are worthless – completely. They are an especially big waste of money since you have to pay $99+ for a .jp domain.
The rest could turn out to be interesting, though.
Say Spearmaster,
Is this opinion from experience or just opinion?jps aren’t even close to being $100 each. At the most I’m paying $35 a year with my first year being around $7.
Now from my prospective being fluent in Japanese, Lived in Tokyo for 7 years, working in a SEO firm partly owned by a major search engine, owning the largest website in English that has been doing research on IDN domains. I think I quite possibly know a few things you might not.
IE7 will be out soon, it will be an automatic update. It will be IDN friendly
All the search engines are IDN compatible already.
IDNs are the only domains for Japanese that have any seo value.
My domain テレビゲーム.com (console games) if you search for the term it’s on the front page of Yahoo Japan. I didn’t even do a lot to optimize it.For example ビンゴ.jp (bingo)
Japanese see Bingo in Japanese & recocgnize it. When they see it they can remember it. You think a Japanese person (in Japan) is going to spell “Affiliate” in English correctly?So I respect your opinion, but I’d like to see you post facts to back up IDNs being worthless.
From a Japan standpoint even the Japan registry http://jprs.jp/
Is looking so forward to the release of IE7 so that IDNs will be the normal domains of Japan.So I’m just going to present unbiased facts about them. No hype, just facts.
Spearmaster wrote:The IDNs are worthless – completely. They are an especially big waste of money since you have to pay $99+ for a .jp domain.The rest could turn out to be interesting, though.
not completely worthless. in fact very valuable for truly localized marketing programs and maximum conversion.
Spearmaster wrote:The IDNs are worthless – completely. They are an especially big waste of money since you have to pay $99+ for a .jp domain.The rest could turn out to be interesting, though.
urbanjapan wrote:Say Spearmaster,
Is this opinion from experience or just opinion?Experience.
Quote:jps aren’t even close to being $100 each. At the most I’m paying $35 a year with my first year being around $7.At that price I wouldn’t mind – but the official JP registrars still charge $99 or more per year.
Quote:Now from my prospective being fluent in Japanese, Lived in Tokyo for 7 years, working in a SEO firm partly owned by a major search engine, owning the largest website in English that has been doing research on IDN domains. I think I quite possibly know a few things you might not.IE7 will be out soon, it will be an automatic update. It will be IDN friendly
All the search engines are IDN compatible already.
IDNs are the only domains for Japanese that have any seo value.
My domain テレビゲーム.com (console games) if you search for the term it’s on the front page of Yahoo Japan. I didn’t even do a lot to optimize it.From an SEO perspective, you are correct. Obviously easier to optimize for the correct words in the target language. However, it is still debatable whether an IDN domain will be widely accepted or even trusted.
Quote:For example ビンゴ.jp (bingo)
Japanese see Bingo in Japanese & recocgnize it. When they see it they can remember it. You think a Japanese person (in Japan) is going to spell “Affiliate” in English correctly?So I respect your opinion, but I’d like to see you post facts to back up IDNs being worthless.
The biggest problem is that IDNs are not currently supported. When browsers start supporting IDNs (as you suggest above) this may change – for all we know it could change the face of the Internet.
But then again, this is what was once said about the NEW.NET extensions – .game, .club etc. Even with the plugin, these extensions proved worthless.
It is impossible to post any “fact” to support an IDN extension or not. It is, however, possible to post an opinion – and that is what I have done.
Quote:From a Japan standpoint even the Japan registry http://jprs.jp/
Is looking so forward to the release of IE7 so that IDNs will be the normal domains of Japan.So I’m just going to present unbiased facts about them. No hype, just facts.
The fact is, IDNs are unsupported and at this writing remain unsupported.Spearmaster … one way to settle this in my humble
opinion would be to say if you are getting typin
convertable traffic. If you are getting such traffic,
the more you are getting, the better your argument is I
would say.
:blush:
aleph wrote:Spearmaster … one way to settle this in my humbleopinion would be to say if you are getting typin
convertable traffic. If you are getting such traffic,
the more you are getting, the better your argument is I
would say.
:blush:
Exactly.
There is *no* type-in traffic for an IDN because IE does not currently support IDNs except through a plug-in.
There are also useability and hacker issues with IDNs which make it quite difficult to design the right concept – they have been working on this for some time and standards have been agreed upon – but ultimately this is still a basically untested concept.
OK I understand your opinion
I’ll try to just post what is true.
1. IE6 didn’t support IDNs true.
2. IE7 which is being released this month does.
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/ (Microsoft’s official IE Blog)
3. FireFox does support IDNs
4. Google does support IDNs
5. Yahoo does support IDNs
6. Opera Does
7. Safari Does
8. MSN doesI’m familiar with NEW.net (Which is worthless I agree) & unfortunately IDNs are not vanity extensions. It’s a global move by ICANN to give people domains in their own language. Plugins won’t be needed. All of these browsers except IE6 have native support for IDN domains.
With the statement about the official jp registry being at $99, that’s like posting dot coms are $75 because you see it at Network Solutions.
There’s plenty of site’s cheaper than that even in English. You can also have dot com IDNs they only cost $7 a pop.
I’ll respect your opinion but do you still say they are “worthless”?
In my years of developing sites I’ve always viewed adult & gambling marketers to be cutting edge. I have a portfolio of the best Japanese generic terms. Most of them (that are parked) are already getting traffic. These are fresh regs after I get them indexed I’ll let you know how well Bingo, & roulette show up in SERPS for the term.The hacker issue is about Phishing domains.
These are domains primarily in character sets that look like English but isn’t.
People also call these mixed script domains.
It would be like PayPal.com but instead of an “a” it would be a foreign letter “a”.Sorry but you can’t register these domains anymore. ICANN put a stop to it.
Also there’s no way to fake a Japanese looking domain. There is no character set that looks like Japanese, Chinese, Russian or Arabic.
I’m just trying to tell you the worth. A lot of IDN related issues were already ironed out.
Spearmaster wrote:Exactly.There is *no* type-in traffic for an IDN because IE does not currently support IDNs except through a plug-in.
There are also useability and hacker issues with IDNs which make it quite difficult to design the right concept – they have been working on this for some time and standards have been agreed upon – but ultimately this is still a basically untested concept.
urbanjapan wrote:I’m familiar with NEW.net (Which is worthless I agree) & unfortunately IDNs are not vanity extensions. It’s a global move by ICANN to give people domains in their own language. Plugins won’t be needed. All of these browsers except IE6 have native support for IDN domains.True. And NEW.net was definitely vanity…
Quote:With the statement about the official jp registry being at $99, that’s like posting dot coms are $75 because you see it at Network Solutions.There’s plenty of site’s cheaper than that even in English. You can also have dot com IDNs they only cost $7 a pop.
I was referring to .jp extensions – obviously an IDN .com would only cost what you would pay for a normal domain name, or maybe a wee bit more depending on the registrar.
Quote:I’ll respect your opinion but do you still say they are “worthless”?
In my years of developing sites I’ve always viewed adult & gambling marketers to be cutting edge. I have a portfolio of the best Japanese generic terms. Most of them (that are parked) are already getting traffic. These are fresh regs after I get them indexed I’ll let you know how well Bingo, & roulette show up in SERPS for the term.We shall see – they (meaning IDNs) are worthless today. They may not be worthless tomorrow but ultimately the determining factor will be market adoption of IDN names, plus what additional value a search engine places on the domain name IF it can read it without having to resort to punycode (if it does work, I think this could only be an advantage).
In Japan, for example, you would know that there are numerous input methods for numerous character sets (kanji, hiragana, katakana). In order to enter an IDN URL in the address bar, it would require at least two input methods, which quite frankly is very irritating.
Now, if an IDN also had a foreign language extension, that I would agree could be potentially very useful.
As for the hacking – it’s not just phishing we’re talking about – there are documented problems with scripting which can compromise security.
Frankly, I’d like to see IDNs work and be widely adopted. But forgive me if I am a bit skeptical at the moment.
Spearmaster wrote:We shall see – they (meaning IDNs) are worthless today. They may not be worthless tomorrow but ultimately the determining factor will be market adoption of IDN names, plus what additional value a search engine places on the domain name IF it can read it without having to resort to punycode (if it does work, I think this could only be an advantage).Google Japan resolves to the Domain not punycode
Yahoo Japan resolves to the domain
For the term ゲームオンラインショップ Game Online Shop my pcゲーム.jp
http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%A5%B2%A1%BC%A5%E0%A5%AA%A5%F3%A5%E9%A5%A4%A5%F3%A5%B7%A5%E7%A5%C3%A5%D7&x=0&y=0&fr=top_v2&tid=top_v2&ei=euc-jp&search.x=1Goo.ne.jp resolves to the domain (Even released a press release this year announcing it)
http://eva045.goo.ne.jp/changes/index.html
You can see on the bottom of Goo’s search service it say’s it’s IDN Friendly (日本語ドメイン)Spearmaster wrote:In Japan, for example, you would know that there are numerous input methods for numerous character sets (kanji, hiragana, katakana). In order to enter an IDN URL in the address bar, it would require at least two input methods, which quite frankly is very irritating.Spearmaster I work & email friends in Japanese all the time. I’m American & can type a Japanese email on a cell phone faster than I can in English. Do you actually type Japanese?(Not being sarcastic) Look at any Japanese Blog & see how often they “don’t” type correct Japanese because it’s irritating. Japanese comes first for Japanese people. You don’t even need to change the characterset at all to type in a dot jp. I can type in ビンゴ．jp & it will resolve. I didn’t change the character set.
As far as the browser support. Like I said IE7 works without resolving to punycode & will be IDN friendly. It comes out this month.
If it still makes it worthless today to you. Hey I respect you for having that opinion.
As far as the security issues can you post a current URL of the weakness of an IDN domain for a site? Something that especially refers to Asian domains?
Preferably something that states problems & not just “we are concerned that maybe”. You’d be really surprised what people who didn’t look at this from the average Japanese person’s standpoint would say is a problem. I’ve heard a lot that didn’t make sense over the past year.
urbanjapan wrote:Yahoo Japan resolves to the domain
For the term ゲームオンラインショップ Game Online Shop my pcゲーム.jp
http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%A5%B2%A1%BC%A5%E0%A5%AA%A5%F3%A5%E9%A5%A4%A5%F3%A5%B7%A5%E7%A5%C3%A5%D7&x=0&y=0&fr=top_v2&tid=top_v2&ei=euc-jp&search.x=1It displays that in the search results, yes, though obviously as you can see in the search URL it had to go Unicode… Once clicked upon, using IE6, it resolved directly to http://xn--pc-vh4axh5e.jp/ – punycode, via Yahoo’s own redirect.
Yes, it ended up in the right place. But the URL shown is the punycode shown above.
Quote:Goo.ne.jp resolves to the domain (Even released a press release this year announcing it)
http://eva045.goo.ne.jp/changes/index.html
You can see on the bottom of Goo’s search service it say’s it’s IDN Friendly (日本語ドメイン)Yes, I see that, haven’t tested it.
Ok. So let’s say that the SEs can send you to the right domain, as proven above. Why, then, aren’t there a ton of IDNs for certain very valuable keywords?
Quote:Spearmaster I work & email friends in Japanese all the time. I’m American & can type a Japanese email on a cell phone faster than I can in English. Do you actually type Japanese?(Not being sarcastic) Look at any Japanese Blog & see how often they “don’t” type correct Japanese because it’s irritating. Japanese comes first for Japanese people. You don’t even need to change the characterset at all to type in a dot jp. I can type in ビンゴ．jp & it will resolve. I didn’t change the character set.Yes, I can type Japanese, though obviously not very well. And most of my opinions are formed on the basis of people I work with in the industry, who of course are Japanese.
That does not make me any more knowledgeable about the market, certainly not more than any Japanese person – but as you know Japanese people are not prone to giving out advice they would not follow themselves. And they’re not very good liars because in general they are very truthful.
Quote:As far as the security issues can you post a current URL of the weakness of an IDN domain for a site? Something that especially refers to Asian domains?I didn’t research with Asian domains specifically in mind, #1, and #2, if you did a search yourself, you would find that what I have stated is correct.
You want to make good use of your IDNs, I wish you good luck, and I sincerely hope you are right.
But I stand by my opinion that IDNs are currently worthless.
