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This is why you dont want the official legalization

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Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)
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  • #787312
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I don’t think there is a way in the world they can legalize Online Gambling in the U.S. and restrict the rest of the world.

    Nope,… if it happens, it will be international, and the offshore guys will just have to pay the fees and taxes just like any other U.S. Company would.

    I would be 100% with you, however, about 2 years ago I witnessed the US doing exactly that.

    Therefore we’d be right back to the GOOD OLE Days of 8 or 10 years ago

    That’s what I’m talkin about! And we don’t need the extra legal paper and competition from B&M-gone-online, now, do we? :tongue:

    #787313
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    And we don’t need the extra legal paper and competition from B&M-gone-online, now, do we?

    Actually, I think we do Stupid! {I hate addressing you that way BTW LOL}

    Offshore wins if the U.S. legalizes. EITHERWAY, IMO.

    They either get legal over here themselves, and go for the gold, or they get to go back to the old days when Pay Pal and Credit Cards worked.
    Eitherway they are good to go.

    Plus the WTO has already ruled against the U.S on the Ponies, so if the U.S. legalizes, the same would apply to casinos, sportsbooks, and poker rooms.

    Yep, the way I see it, legalization in the U.S. will bust it wide open for affiliates and casinos.
    Also, for the first time, affiliates would be able to use the “Real World” media in addition to, and in conjunction with their websites.

    Stupid, I can hardly wait!:roflmao:

    I just hope it happens, and happens soon!

    #787314
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    And all I can do is pray I am wrong and you are right :) one of the few battles I would love to lose.

    #787315
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    all I can do is pray I am wrong and you are right

    I was wrong once before, but that was a few decades ago!:roflmao:

    Seriously, all things are possible, so there is no one opinion that is invalid at this point.
    Mine’s just better! lalala.gif

    Whatever happens that is positive for us will take another year or two to enact,….and that’s if it goes smoothly.
    In the meantime, we all gotta stick together, {Casinos and Affiliates}, and do the best we can for each other, in addition to pushing the political agenda in our direction wherever, and whenever possible!:cheers:

    #787317
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi all,

    much depends on the way you approach your business. I would have to change my approach extremely and that’s not the end of the world but it would be necessary.

    nobody needs a gambling guide to find casinos that will pay once vegas goes online. They will likely knock your postman over getting money to you in a timely fashion.

    This will be today’s online casinos’ biggest downfall. They have not done that whether due to the obstacles they have faced and some are just slow in-house which really makes all the current OC’s look bad especially if the player has not experienced a better place.



    people that know nothing about Vegas may be interested in reviews but I think it is a mistake to think that those aware of MGM etc … won’t if they want to know something about them … choose to go to their site.

    see the difference is that for instance if i am wanting to know about red wagons then since I don’t know anything about them I would probably visit redwagon.com and then (or perhaps before but definitely at some point) google that brand name for reviews about that particular site i was thinking about buying something from.

    but here’s the rub.

    If I were seeking a search engine then I would not visit a review site to find out about google because even if I had never used google … the mere fact that the word google is so often used to refer to “look up on a search engine” … would be enough for me to trust going straight to google instead of going to a site for a review about it.

    to further my point is the many times the word Vegas is used by online casinos. They use that because it has only one meaning to the majority of us … a place to gamble. but it goes further than that. there are a lot of places that you can gamble. It adds credibility. You hear vegas and you think gambling and you don’t even question “would I get paid if I won?”

    that is a given.

    so to think that there will be a rush to read a review about a vegas casino gone online may be a mistake.

    If i had to guess I would guess there will be an initial rush to read the review but once the casino is established and been online a year or so … that the interest in reading reviews about it will fall far short of the interest in reading a review about a casino that has been online a long time ….. lucky nugget for instance.

    why? because you may have heard about lucky nugget … may have heard all good things … but any savvy net user will still seek to know more about lucky nugget and do searches such as that name + words like rogue.

    it is unlikely anybody will seek such answers when dealing with a vegas casino because of the regulations they’d be forced to have met because of the US gambling laws. In other words even those unfamiliar with MGM … are not going to hesitate to gamble there because to date there isn’t any USA gambling establishment that has cheated a player and not been severely punished or is completely gone never to be heard from again. Certainly a name like MGM has never been of question.



    current online casinos will be welcomed with open arms as soon as they agree to pay taxes which would likely include some sort of tarrif that gives Vegas an edge … though it won’t be worded that way … and that they agree to all the tests and etc that any Vegas online casino would be forced to endure.

    that’s how I see it.

    #787345
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I would like to look at this optimistically, although I do see the negatives. Here’s one scenario I see… If the US goes to legalization, the Vegas casinos clean up, and this is GOOD for the affiliate. It’s good because all the offshore places that do not have the Vegas casino budgets to advertise on TV, radio, etc… will have to actually INCREASE their rev share to affiliates in order to compete for players with the Vegas sites.

    I also believe Stupid, you are missing something here. Paying an affiliate 30% commission actually doesn’t cost the casino anything. They don’t pay you unless you bring them a player, so these smaller offshore sites don’t NEED a huge budget, they just need affiliates.

    This whole game, the whole Internet, all comes down to affiliates and the more competition the better it is for affiliates.

    Not to mention the other benefits; better payment processing, more advertising by Vegas casinos equals more public awareness of online gambling, which will definitely lead people to affiliates because they would still be skeptical of the vice and want to know who to trust and who not to, better customer support, better bonuses, less corruption, less stealing and shaving of stats, etc…

    #787360
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I Agree with Stupid on all points. Thats why I started the thread. All you will see happen
    is it become an exclusive group of landbased casinos who have no need for smaller affiliates. They will have all access to the mass media (using their deep pockets) along with open up online advertising to large online medias like ESPN,Sportsline,Yahoo,Google etc. Believe me at 25%+ they will have no need to mess with smaller guys.

    Hell landbased dont even have affiliates now. They have whalefinders they pay a fee to, if they can find a person to commit 250k+ on a given weekend to come into their property. But thats about it.

    Smaller Offshore SB and Casinos? Forgettaboutit. They will never receive a license to operate here in America and probably will have their site officially blocked. If not would you still advertise for a illegal casino? Probably not, talk about put yourself on the IRS radar real quick.

    They either get legal over here themselves, and go for the gold, or they get to go back to the old days when Pay Pal and Credit Cards worked.

    Not necessarily, There is no guarantee PayPal you re-enter the market. And Credit Cards were always flaky even before UGEIA. Most banks frown upon online gambling.

    Plus the WTO has already ruled against the U.S on the Ponies, so if the U.S. legalizes, the same would apply to casinos, sportsbooks, and poker rooms.

    Obviously, the US dont really care 2c what the WTO has to say. That may change a little under Obama Admin. But as it stands now, we are still in violation with Antigua.

    Yep, the way I see it, legalization in the U.S. will bust it wide open for affiliates and casinos.Also, for the first time, affiliates would be able to use the “Real World” media in addition to, and in conjunction with their websites.

    You cant afford “Real World” media. Tell you what ESPN,CBS,Yahoo can! You cannot compete with the deep pockets of big corporate America.

    #787361
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I also believe Stupid, you are missing something here. Paying an affiliate 30% commission actually doesn’t cost the casino anything. They don’t pay you unless you bring them a player, so these smaller offshore sites don’t NEED a huge budget, they just need affiliates.

    This whole game, the whole Internet, all comes down to affiliates and the more competition the better it is for affiliates.

    Your 100% right in a “Free” Open market! Now close that “Open” market with licensing. Now it becomes a closed good ole boy group. And you no longer need affiliates.

    #787373
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @john1124 187120 wrote:

    You cant afford “Real World” media. Tell you what ESPN,CBS,Yahoo can! You cannot compete with the deep pockets of big corporate America.

    Is this the same “deep pockets” that you find in the US banking and automotive industries?
    Of course the big boys like Partypoker and Intercasino can afford to advertise if they were allowed to, in fact at the moment I would imagine they are doing a whole lot better than the deep pocketed land based casinos!

    #787377
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I would imagine they are doing a whole lot better than the deep pocketed land based casinos!

    I would say your wrong. The afforemention online pokerrooms don’t own multi-story buildings in places like Vegas,Atlantic City, and the Fla. Keys.

    Is this the same “deep pockets” that you find in the US banking and automotive industries?

    I’m not sure what this comment is for, please explain?

    As a Euro, why do you care about American Policy? How does it effect those in Europe?

    #787387
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    (Un)fortunately for john1124 and I, there is no way online gambling will be legalized anytime soon. Creating an online gambling bill in the current (geo)political environment in the US would result in something similar to the UIGEA regulations.

    I really wished I shared the same positive view on law-making as most of you, but unless I see some drastic change, I would remain the same ole negative guy on this issue.

    Paying an affiliate 30% commission actually doesn’t cost the casino anything.

    On the contrary, it cost them 30% of the value of the player. Whether you pay it upfront or not, you still end up paying it. And if your casino makes 3 mill/month from affiliate-delivered players, your affiliate program will pay 1 mill in “commission fees”.

    #787397
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I was hoping to stimulate some creativity in the area of “Real World Marketing”, however that didn’t seem to work.:Cry:

    I’m probably a little older than most of you, and was retired from the real world when I started getting into this field, which was really foreign territory for me at the time.

    As a small real world company in a saturated field, we had to be very creative to get leads for the company, and have real world closers to sell those leads, and turn them into money.
    There are countless creative ways to do that when you can use all of the real world advertising tools available to you.

    Small affiliates can’t compete with the big boys on a national level. That’s obvious. We won’t even be able to compete in the search engines if the U.S. legalizes the industry here.
    It would be foolish to try.

    The creative adjustment for online casino affiliates would be to learn how to market smaller market target areas where you can do things much cheaper than in larger cities.
    One example that might sound a little strange to you is buying all the commercial spots for an OLD Spaghetti Western movie on a Sunday afternoon during football season!
    Not everyone likes football, and that’s when these old movies usually run, and the time is cheap.
    We paid a local production company to make us one of those “FAKE Telethons” that tied all the commericials together for all the movie commercial spots. The cost for that was only 5k. A one time expense and then you own it. You just pay an 800 service to take the calls for you, and they fax or email you the results the next day.
    You could use your own number, but I don’t recommend that because you need a bank of people if the call volume is high. These services do that and it’s not expensive.

    We always had a small giveaway that went with the Telethon if they called the number and made an appointment. People fall all over themseves for that, BTW.
    Obviously, in our industry that could be a number of things from Free Chips and a T-Shirt, or a cheap Bentley TV! :roflmao:
    I did that once, BTW. Got a truckload of 1000 of them for 5 bucks apiece.
    Moving on, a local NBC, CBS, or ABC affiliate will charge about 1500 to 2000 dollars for the old movie in a SMALLER city.
    We never got less than about 300 appointments, often twice that from these things, and you can run them every six months in the city and get the results year after year. It’s just amazing.
    Once you have the production made, it’s yours, and you just make your deals in the cities and send them a copy to run.

    So, can you see how that might work for us? A poker game running while the host is maybe explaining the game, pitching a 50 dollar free chip and a Poker Stars T-Shirt, your website address embebed on the screen, etc.. Of course you will have to call the prospects when you get the list, have a special link to the casino, and have something set up with the Casino or Poker Room so you can verify the player signed up and created a real account.
    That wouldn’t be too hard though.
    So it’s a lead generator, but thats what we do right now, and then we rely 100% on the casinos to convert them. This just makes their job easier because they will basically convert themselves.

    So would you spend 2500 bucks to give the casino or Poker Room 300 real players to work with to get real deposits from?
    I think most of us would. Plus, now you are building a real world data base because YOU’VE got names, physical addresses, email addresses, and phone numbers to follow up with, and market other casinos to as well.

    The possibilities are endless, but you have to know when to do these things, and where to do them. So that’s just one example of something creative you can do that I know works without fail everytime. Crazy as it may sound.

    Newspaper inserts work well to in smaller cities too. The insertion charges are too high in the big cities, but not so in smaller ones! It’s just a numbers game, that’s all.
    Same with inserts though, you have to know when to do it.
    Many real world advertisers think you do these at times when business is typically slow.
    That’s a big mistake. The biggest bang for your buck is to do them when your business is typically the best, because there are many more people in the market and you’ll get a much better response. In my old business, winter was the slow time, so spring and summer were the best, and always do these in the Sunday paper. It costs a little more than a weekday, but worth it.
    In our industry, I’d say it’s just the opposite. You would do inserts in the winter, and lay off of them in the summer.

    Anyway, sorry for the wind bag routine, but I wanted to give some examples of how to the little guys can capitalize and compete in the real world, if and when the U.S. were to actually legalize. As I said, I think it will eventually happen, but is still a ways off, but it’s never too soon to think about what you will need to do in order to stay competitive in an ever changing market.

    As always, due respect to opposing views.
    Have a great day out there. I gotta get to work on updates again!icon_puke.gif

    #787400
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    @john1124 187141 wrote:

    I would say your wrong. The afforemention online pokerrooms don’t own multi-story buildings in places like Vegas,Atlantic City, and the Fla. Keys.

    I’m not sure what this comment is for, please explain?

    As a Euro, why do you care about American Policy? How does it effect those in Europe?

    It was just a meant as a bit of a joke, sorry if you took it the wrong way but I do get a bit annoyed at people who walk around with blindfolds on as regards the world at large.
    The world economy, and by world I mean the entire WORLD not just America as in the sense of the world series :-), is going to go very very bad before it comes good again and actually world economy is directly affected by how bad or good it is in the USA.
    In any case this is going off topic and as said I apologise if I caused offence but I still think you’re wrong. :tongue:

Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)