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I was most surprised to read here that Ultimate Bet does not pay on tournament play.
I have thus reviewed this programs terms and it says quite clearly that:
Gross Revenue is the sum total of all an affiliate’s Players’ contributions to rake while playing for a single payment period.
(An expanded excerpt of the calculation of commissions from their terms appears below)
No mention is made that tournament play is excluded.
As it is not mentioned there is no more legal right to withhold tournament play commissions than there is to withhold play that occurs on a Saturday.
I am thus formally requesting back pay to all affiliates for all tournament play.
I will await an answer.
Payment will be made monthly, by the 10th business day of the month, and credited to your specified UltimateBet account. UltimateBet may, at its option, accrue credits until such credit(s) equal at least $50.
Referral fees will be based upon our good faith calculation based on the referred player statistics available to UltimateBet. UltimateBet is not responsible for any fees not properly credited to you that UltimateBet is unaware of due to computer error or other reasons. Activity reports will generally be available online by accessing the link located in the account services area of the game. UltimateBet will make reasonable efforts to have this link available at all times, however there may be instances that it is unavailable during technology maintenance and updates.
The Ultimatebet Payment Plan Formulas are as follows:
Gross Revenue within a single payment period up to $20,000.00 USD:
(.25R) – (.25D) = P
Gross Revenue within a single payment period between $20,000.01 and $30,000.00 USD:
((.3(R-20000))+5000) – (.25D) = P
Gross Revenue within a single payment period over $30,000.01 USD:
((.35(R-30000))+8000) – (.25D) = P
R = Gross Revenue.
Gross Revenue is the sum total of all an affiliate’s Players’ contributions to rake while playing for a single payment period. A Player’s contribution to the “rake” shall be determined by dividing the actual amount of rake generated during a hand by the number of players who were dealt cards during that hand.
D = Total Deduction.
Total Deduction includes but is not limited to any credits, bonuses or promotional amounts given to Players, charge backs, or any un-collectable revenue attributable to an affiliate’s players.
P = Affiliate Payment.
Affiliate Payment is the net amount the affiliate will receive for a single payment period based on the Payment Plan.It is pretty clear here too that we get commissions on all of our players:
General Description
UltimateBet derives revenue from players who establish real money accounts and play real money games. When a real money game is played, the house is paid rent for the table, commonly referred to as the ‘rake’ (rake is taken as a percentage of the amount of money played during a hand of poker). Each player’s contribution to the rake is tracked, and affiliates earn income as a percentage of all referred players’ contributions to total rake.Don’t forget now, Blackjack Play needs to be included as well!!! This is house money that is also revenue which should be included in commission.
Good luck with this campaign guys.
sigh.gifHi Tovey,
I understand your point, but it’s important to make the distinction between rake and tournament fees. They aren’t quite the same.
Rake is the percentage of the pot collected from every hand in non-tournament play and tournament fees are the small fees added to the buy-in amount for tournaments.
For now UB doesn’t pay commission on tournament fees, as you know.
We will be amending the affiliate terms and conditions shortly to reflect the payout for Blackjack commission and yes, that will be paid retroactively.
Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions.
“UltimateBet derives revenue from players who establish real money accounts and play real money games. When a real money game is played, the house is paid rent for the table, commonly referred to as the ‘rake’ (rake is taken as a percentage of the amount of money played during a hand of poker).”
This sets out the priniciple that we are paid a commission based on what our players pay to play.
Whether their “rent for the table” is by actual rake fee or tournament fee is irrelevant.
Your agreement itself says that “rake” is just a term commonly used in the industry to call what the above is. Ie player fees to play.
Your agreement never said we weren’t paid for tournament fees and as this is in fact a very material perentage of earnings as others have posted on we are due this money.
Under any reasonable interpretation of your terms we are due (based on our volume) a percentage of all the profit from our players.
You are no more free to keep tournament fees all for yourself than you would be to start slot games and pay 0 affiliate commissions on these.
If I accepted your argument that just because it’s not rake you don’t have to pay then you wouldn’t owe us anything for blackjack or any other game you introduced.
So from a legal and just plain fairness point of view you still owe us and I repeat my request for back pay for affiliates.
Under any reasonable interpretation of your terms we are due (based on our volume) a percentage of all the profit from our players.
That’s the way it always has been in this business.
We work for free and don’t make a dime unless you make money off our labor.
It is only fair that you pay a percentage of the profits we generate for you.
Show me another sales force that works under such tenuous conditions, you guys have it made. No base income, no insurance, no retirement, no nothing. All we ask is that you share the money you make off our backs.
They certainly are not the only ones that do not pay tourney fees. Pacific, Bodog, Action Poker most Cryptos and some Tain skins do not pay them either. Here is a list of who does and do not.
http://www.rakerebatereview.com/onlinepokerrooms/compare.asp
I made it earlier this year so some might have changed. I’m not trying to defend them either. I think not paying out on blackjack is wrong. I’m no longer affiliated with the site I linked too. I hope mods are not offended. The site is essentially closed now.
danielb wrote:Hi Tovey,I understand your point, but it’s important to make the distinction between rake and tournament fees. They aren’t quite the same.
Rake is the percentage of the pot collected from every hand in non-tournament play and tournament fees are the small fees added to the buy-in amount for tournaments.
For now UB doesn’t pay commission on tournament fees, as you know.
We will be amending the affiliate terms and conditions shortly to reflect the payout for Blackjack commission and yes, that will be paid retroactively.
Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions.
This is good news. When will these payments be made?
Hi KeithF,
Hope you’ve been enjoying the holiday season!
We are still working things out with UB regarding Blackjack. Once things are finalized and we have a firm date, we’ll be sure to post it right away.
In the interim, if you have any other questions, please feel free to send me an email.
Thanks,
