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Thanks for linking the article. There is a short-term concern about these bots, and rightfully so, but I think the larger rooms will be able to filter out almost all of them. It’s crucial that the rooms do so, and I’d be interested in what some of the groups have to say about this issue.
Here’s the winholdem page:
xhttp://www.winholdem.net/
They already have a Party and Paradise poker version of the software to thwart any attempts by the poker room to catch Win Holdem users.
If this got out into the poker playing community, it could destroy their business. Who wants to play against bots? Sure as hell not me!
I think we would be foolish to think that plenty of bots arr not currently being used right now. I have even heard rumours of card rooms having bots playing for them just to keep the action going. It is unfortunate but I don’t see the problem of bots going away anytime soon.
I would even venture to guess somewhere in this crazy world some computer geek has assembled an entire online poker team of bots located on different computers with various accounts throughout the world. Cheating has been going on in gambling since the wild west and it will never stop.
Gambling, the internet, and cheating seem like a match made in heaven for a professional cheat. Yes it sucks but what can we do.
Right, but I think this is going to really bring that issue home to many online poker players – cheating can easily take place online.
I think that most people think that since casinos/poker rooms have an interest in keeping their games fair, they will spend some of their money on establishing credibility (and keeping it) with their players. I think we can all anticpate the occassional collusion between players, but not many of us realize the extent of what can be done as far as cheating goes online. I mean, I sure don’t, but I’m rapidly learning!
well it’s now on slashdot….so alot more players are going to become aware of this…thousands actually
You still have to remember, though….
These are not pre-programmed, ready to go, out of the box systems. You have to program them yourself otherwise they are no better than a crappy poker player.
The time it takes to program these bots is a lot more than 99% of the people are either capable of or willing to do.
Yes, there are people using them.
However… Can anyone pick up the program and use it to successfully make money? Nope.
kw
KWBLUE. Very true,
These bots take hundreds of hours to get them at break even. To start with you have to be a very good poker player , then you need to learn their coding and spend huge amounts of time writing the code in to get the bot to play like a good player. Then you have to run tests on the bot not less than 10,000 hands to see if it’s is a winner. WTF, why are people paying for this crap.
but as for the poker sites taking action, i really dont know about that.
The poker sites are making money with every rake, bot or not, they rake.bots cant talk at the table so, engage in conversation, if you think you got a bot at the table, tell the others, you can take him for all his chips :fencing:
“but as for the poker sites taking action, i really dont know about that. The poker sites are making money with every rake, bot or not, they rake.”
Yeah, but while the poker room might not care, the whole point is that a high percentage of their players DO care, and so when players stop playing at their site, they lose business, and so this is an issue that they must deal with.
As for programing the Win Holdem bot, I think the idea is that they have an easier “autoplay” mode that allows a player to use it without having to spend hours programming it. I’m sure you can do more with it, though.
As for programing the Win Holdem bot, I think the idea is that they have an easier “autoplay” mode that allows a player to use it without having to spend hours programming it. I’m sure you can do more with it, though.
From what i see on their forum, you need to program it from the start, they give you a formula, but it has to be improved on, How does the bot play 55 in first position ? how do you like to play that hand from the same position. are you a passive player ? some players will have a 30% risk factor in their game, while others will have more.
I think there is an auto play, but you still have to tell it how you want the hands played and what are starting hands and so on. It looks to me like you buy it and then spend months getting it to play like you would play. I am going to try find one playing at a table, and already know i can beat it, simple because it has been programed to act on what it sees.
I really dont think the playing public have much to worry about, I think if you can find the bot on the table, you can all bust him. Then they might not be too keen to let a machine play with their money
JMHO
From what I have heard, the initial ‘program’ it comes with is not very good. In fact, if you use it… you will get cleaned out for sure.
That’s just what I have heard, though
kw
since poker is what i do, I have been snooping the forum since this post started, i have read hundreds of their posts, and you are correct, it seems it sucks. So let them get on with it, I for one will play a bot anytime, from what i’ve read it would be easy to make the bot fold.
:shooter:
Oh yeah, playing against a bot would probably be pretty easy. I mean, there’s so much more to poker than just knowing statistics. I mean, poker has entertained me for over two and a half years, and with my short attention span, that’s a big achievment!
But I just think other people will hear about bots and freak out. I mean, like I said, it raises general questions about fairness and such.
There are poker software packages, for people thinking of starting their own room, that advertise the availability of bots in the software to populate the room. I do agree that the public perception of bots playing poker is not good, ie: the average poker player will not understand and play elsewhere. However, I will always bet on a good player against a bot any day. Didn’t Layne Flack just play a bot heads up and destroy it?
Just to add fuel to the fire, the U of Alberta Poki sparbot AI is pretty damn good. It plays solid mathematically correct headsup poker. It’s beatable, but not easily.
However, headsup poker is many powers (since each extra player multiplies the complexity on every street they are invoved) less complicated than a full game.
What is fairly easy for a human being to decide using rules of thumb and fuzzy logic is tougher for a bot to decide (unless it resorts to just playing the maths like Poki does).
Where is gets really scary is Vexbot (also a U of A project) since it learns from you and exploits your weaknesses (mind you it only has one opponent to learn about).
I can see bots becoming more dangerous, but I can also see rooms taking much tougher stands on bot users. If among other things the stupid theocracy in the US would just officially legalise online poker, then using a bot could become a criminal offence (in my dream world).
At pogo you can play poker against some bots and get some feel for it.
The practice mode in their texas holdem lets you choose to play against a roomful of them.
These are all portraying different player types, so you don’t sit in a room with bots who all play the same way…
