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Oh nO…
i started to promote them around four months ago and i doing ok,
so, could you explain more about what’s going on?
I Don`t want lost my time with bad programs.
and are you sure about this?
Thanks
Hopefully they don’t go rogue. We have been doing alright with them.
Best if you read the forum I point to X-Moss for full info, but yes, I’m completely sure this doesn’t look good.
My problem with them is that there stats are always fu$$ed up.
ill have 200 click and 321 downloads how is that possible, and no matter how many clicks or downloads i get i never seem to get any depositing players. I have removed most of the ads i placed for them on my sites anyway
Could you please give a quick summary for us, Tovey?
It’s a bit impractical following a chain of links….
Allow me to chime in………
I have been moderatley promoting Paradise for a few months now and have not had any problems. In fact I am pretty pleased with my results and their affiliate department. Regarding the clicks versus downloads, I am not too concerned about this as it is has been explained to me by their affiliate department and it does make sense when you fully understand it.
I think the biggest affiliate need from Paradise is a cut and dry way to see Total Players versus Real Money Players. To my knowledge this about a month away. I agree that this is something Paradise has to implement to give us better understanding of our stats. Complain about clicks versus conversions, at least Paradise shares click data with us. Half the programs I promote don’t provide this data.
Not to be rude Tovey but I think it’s pretty low of you to issue a “Warning” about Paradise in not one but two different forums here based on the Sportingbet issue instead of based on your actual numbers, discrepancies, and problems that you have had with their affiliate department.
Aquisitions and mergers are inevitibly going to happen in the coming months and yes some programs are going to have to make adjustements……..that’s why we as affiliates shouldn’t have all our eggs in one basket. What happens to your players if Party buys Empire and integrates it into one room?
The T&C’s can say whatever they want but in a relatively new and changing industry there is no such thing as a “player for life”. None of these sites know where they will be in 20 years. They should rephrase it as “for the life of the player under the exsisiting program”
Now back to your warning, looking at the Paradise business model they are one of the larger players in the online poker market, keep in mind the parent company also owns Sportsbook.com. If anything I would look for Paradise and Sportsbook.com to leverage the exsisiting Paradise affiliate program to benefit eachother. Similar to how they now have Blackjack integrated into Paradise, my guess is at some point you will be able to visit the sportsbook with the same bankroll. They are already leveraging this relationship in advertising on their homepages and my guess is they will leverage it amongst affiliates.
What happened with Sportingbet sucks, but lets look at it this as business people. Sportingbet.com is becoming a portal/gateway to their European domains, maybe a bad business decision but nonetheless you can’t keep the exsisting affiliate program with this structure.
Do you really forsee one of the top poker rooms in the world (Paradise) that offers $1 million dollar freerolls becoming a portal any time soon? Do you think they would have invested in the new affiliate program and just launched a sub-affiliate program if this was in their plans? If you want to talk ethics in this industry, look around, you could be sending your “warnings” out every day.
Please don’t take this post the wrong way, but I feel putting out a warning in a community this size with the exposure CAP has should have a little more basis to it.
Jeremy
I am in full agreement with Jeremy on this one. When I posted the original Sporting Bet post warning people that that particular affiliate program was closing down it was just as a heads up to those people who were promoting them to take down their banners. I in no way wanted to denigrate the other sub brands.
Sporting Bet and Paradise are tremendous franchises and they have great appeal to players with or without affiliates.
The business realtity is that it is going to be far more beneficial to recognise that being an affiliate is a two way relationship that ends when one party or the other decides not to continue working with the other, regardless of the contractual terms.
Just like in a marriage a prenup isnt going to prevent people from forgetting why they got together in the first place, you need to find the programs you trust and hope they are faithful. There are enough high quailty programs and trustworthy partners out there.
Jeremy,
If one division of a company is blatently screwing affiliates in as unprecedented a level as Sporting Bet is, then you can bet your bottom dollar they will get exposed for all to see.
I don’t have time to read each program’s individual thread, so a post in the general forum is perfectly appropriate to inform all in the community of such inappropriate actions as we have seen in this case.
If affiliates think its okay for a program to take players by telling them to open new accounts and to have affiliate accounts cancelled on flimsy ie. almost nonexistent pretexts then that’s fine. They can read my warning and go on doing as much business as they want with a corporate owner that is okay to let these things happen. My warning is to alert all that this in fact is going on.
If Sporting Bet wanted a portal gateway, with all their funds there are a hundred domains they could have purchased from any of us and not have had to screw affiliates! There isn’t a single reason I’ve seen as to why existing players couldn’t continue to be paid.
Sporting Bet is welcome to do whatever they want with new traffic, but they owe their affiliates full commissions on past players and an artificial cut off date for recurring commissions is not acceptable.
On the point of mergers, sure they will happen, and I’ll expect every obligation to do with existing player bases to be honoured. The buyers knew what they were buying going in (and if they didn’t like it, they shouldn’t have bought the sites), and if it doesn’t happen that affiliate deals are honoured on past players you can bet there will be a huge consequence to be paid by the buyer and the seller for that matter if they are going to reap all the rewards for the business we helped build up and pay us nothing in return!
In closing, disagree with this post or any other for that matter, but the “its pretty low” of you is language that should not be present on CAP. I’d prefer to debate facts not trade barbs.
I just found out that Sporting Bet also owned Fast Poker and Casino Craze.
I was never paid when Casino Craze closed, and since it was a negligible amount, I didn’t do anything about it.
But now there is a distinct pattern and we cannot sit there and ignore it.
If you want to promote a company that thinks contracts with affiliates are not real and do not need to be kept, and affiliates are disposable, go ahead.
I surely will not let anyone walk all over me like that.
I had sporting bet up for 3 months on some sports betting websites. I dont know if I earned anything. But VIP profits and 9am.com earned me a significant income during that period of time. Sportingbet in one way or another stole that income from me.
If one division of the company that runs the sportsbetting operation is willing to do this, than it’s not far fetched that the other division of the same company that runs the poker rooms will follow. This is why I will not promote these poker rooms. There’s so many poker rooms out there, it’s not like we cant be picky.
As affiliates we have to punish companies that screw us. We do this by removing all exposure. Other companies learn from this and hopefully the process repeats itself less and less.
I will stick with Paradise. They have employed an experienced exec to run their aff program. Show me a more responsive aff manager. Paradise is starting to command significant positions on established portals. I can’t believe Paradise isn’t sitting up and taking note of the numbers they are getting.
The issue at the end of the day is tracking. Stephen has been up-front and has told us what the issues are and that he is working on getting them addressed. Believe me they piss me off as much as the next affiliate.
Sometimes in this game you have to trust the individual you are dealing with, if you feel you can trust your own ability to judge character. Alternatively you can craft every conspirace theory in the book. Keep doing this and eventually you will have nobody to promote.
Paradise is a great Poker Room. I play there. I know that the players I have personal dealings with love it. The aff program has flaws, but I believe they will be addressed. Go to Party and Pacific and have yourself some fish that get nailed and go running. I can find problems everywhere. Crypto, Prima, iPoker lose your players to rakeback wars. Pokerroom – does anyone here believe their stats 100%? etc etc. Full tilt – don’t get me going. Absolute – disaster moving away from IA.
All have flaws. Live with those you feel comfortable with.
As for Sportingbet. It sucks. I lost players. I have to make a call. Spend my days fighting with them or just move on. I have better things to do. I can understand what they are doing, but disagree with how they did it.
As for the email they sent. Read it again. They are moving players off an old platform. I know beacuase I used to wager there. I don’t condone what they are doing, but how they are doing it. Again, move on, there are enough programs that take the aff world seriously. Sportingbet never did, and I should have seen that earlier myself.
I can go on and on, but if you are willing to deal with some hiccups to get players into a room where they stay, and where their deposits are maximized I will stay there.
OK I’mm off for a 50+5 Sit and Go at Paradise – donations anyone? :bigsmile:
I like the Sporting Bet aff managers also. They are very responsive and always give their best, and have always tried hard to bring affs and company together, and successfully so.
Unfortunately the company runs the aff manager, not the other way around.
Sporting Bet is not to be trusted, they pulled this stunt on Casino Craze affiliates, on Fast Poker affiliates, and on sports betting affiliates.
That pretty much covers the field – the only missing sector is Bingo.
I am not going to support a company that has such a pattern of disregard for affiliates.
As affiliates we have to punish companies that screw us. We do this by removing all exposure. Other companies learn from this and hopefully the process repeats itself less and less
That’s it. I am sorry if innocent people work for these companies, but we cannot sacrifice the integrity of our industry for them. They need to find a job with a reputable, honorable company.
I do agree that Stephen is a great affiliate manager for Paradise Poker, but he may not have a say in the matter if SportingBet wants to drop all affiliates for Paradise Poker. Maybe they are doing this to increase their bottomline to boost up the stock for their next earnings report? Who knows.
If I think there is even a 5% chance that Paradise Poker might drop their affiliates, I think I would be making a huge mistake sending players there when so many alternative sites exist. Of course the other poker sites can do the same thing and drop their affiliates, but this company seems to have a history of that whereas the other companies do not.
Completely agree with antoine. It would only encourage others to screw us if it was just business as usual with programs that screw affiliates over, particularly as bad as in this case.
If we don’t nip it in the bud, others may be tempted to follow suit the next time they want a short term earnings jump.
We as an industry need to keep up our vigilance here.
