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AussieDave
Originally Posted by Marcia 
BrightShare completely rejects the incorrect, damaging and misleading statements made by Lloyd Apter, who left BrightShare nearly two years agoPlaying the Devil’s advocate, if what Lloyd has posted has weight, it’s not like Brightshare is going raise their hand to dropping Btags, hey.
Another question, was Lloyd sacked or did he resign on his own free will?
Last question, given both BS and Lloyd reside in the same country, and you’ve claimed Lloyd’s statements are both damaging and misleading, will Brightshare be taking civil legal action?
One of them knows the truth – no question about that – but if Lloyd really want to stick to his words he stands for he should post some evidence rather than performing a show as a popular magician.
Hi Guys ,
I just wanted to let you know I am reading this thread but every time I go to type something it is nothing but bad lol.I know it sounds depressing and maybe like I have given up but I just carry on my business today under assumption everyone has done something to tip the scales in their favor.
The programs who are suppose to be the great ones I cannot earn a decent income.The programs who supposedly are ‘bad guys’ pay my mortgage each month and have no issues converting my traffic compared to the ‘white knights’ of this Industry.
Back in 2006 I spent many hours a day on this forum and if I read something bad I pulled a program without hesitation ,If I did this today I would have a empty website.In this forum our voices are loud but outside of this forum we are very small group of people .One program manager told me last year they had about 200,000 affiliates world wide ,when I heard this number I realized I am a very tiny dot on a database.
As for giving proof when we are treated unfairly ,there is always an explanation they will come up with and if no excuse they will rewrite the rules to force quotas ,breech contracts, high roller rules , quarantines ,negative carry overs ,SEO tricks etc.
I finally had to quit taking on new programs as it seemed all we were doing is pulling one to replace with another and it was a continuous cycle.@casinobonusguy 248928 wrote:
The programs who are suppose to be the great ones I cannot earn a decent income.The programs who supposedly are ‘bad guys’ pay my mortgage each month and have no issues converting my traffic compared to the ‘white knights’ of this Industry.
This pretty much sums up my position.
Hi CBG,
Thanks for posting, your input and sincerity is appreciated
As too is any of the older crew who’d like to join the thread, wink wink!@casinobonusguy 248928 wrote:
The programs who supposedly are ‘bad guys’ pay my mortgage each month and have no issues converting my traffic compared to the ‘white knights’ of this Industry.
Playing the Devil’s advocate again, who have players and affiliates held in high esteem and turned to in deciding which casinos are the “white knights” and which are the “bad guys”?
That in the past has cast doubt about the affiliate program too. Albeit some of these listing are warranted. Some of the places are 100% clip joints.
But is every gaming venue being listed for genuine reasons, such as non payment of legitimate winnings. Or, has that line become blurred to the point where any old reason, including a personally clash, earns a red flag?
I wouldn’t go into someone’s house, kick back on the couch and put my feet up on their coffee table for instance. But if this place is a public meeting spot, and people are encourage to speak their mind, then no person with a legitimate grievance should be chastised for doing exactly that. Even if it’s against one of the “white knights”.
These Brightshare claims by Lloyd in December 2012, are now encrouched on by FinSoft rigging free play versions of many games, Spielo G2 who is also provides these games to BetFred, NordicBet, Bet365 and others too. These events came out in January 2013.
It seems lately, not a month goes past, without another “trusted” program or casino being spat out of the woodwork about stories of dubious and unethical actions.
When not even a regulatory body will stand by its own words but instead does a complete back flip on its SEALS, then I think both players and affiliates have a right to be untrusting of the online gaming industry as it currently stands.
Verbatim from the eCOGRA web site:
Quote:eCOGRA
requirements are enforced through onsite reviews and continuous monitoring.Meaning of continuous: uninterrupted in time; without cessation.
Quote:eCOGRA
it cannot offer 100% assurance that the operation of any games at any given site is at all times in accordance with the eCOGRA requirements. Therefore eCOGRA cannot assume responsibility for the consequences resulting from the use of any Internet gaming site bearing the eCOGRA Safe and Fair seal.Effectively, eCOGRA SEALS are worthless.
I target Australian and New Zealand traffic only. MGS claims Australia is their biggest market these days. Yet, with all the traffic and players I have, I should be and continue to send the MGS programs I promote, well, I can assure you I’m not living in a million dollar house or driving a Ferrari. Something is wrong here and it ain’t my traffic!
And with regard to Brightshare, in 2 1/2 years promoting them heavily, the most I’ve ever made in one month is $2,750US. They are by far the worst converting MGS casino (Allsots) I promote. Now I’m starting to wonder if what Lloyd has stated is the reason why!
NB – Lets not forget the CAP affiliate who was paid for; I believe 12 months of untagged players, not that long ago by Brighshare.
Personally, I think I’ve placed too much trust and blind faith in those in the industry who claim to be looking out for my best interests. Not only as a player but also an affiliate too.
Referring back to the original post, in history of the industry, there used to be trust. It was based on the direct, personal knowledge many affiliates had of the programs, their employees, and each other.
It was a small circle of people. No program had 200,000 affiliates. The first conference had maybe 30 affiliates and as many aff managers. It wasn’t all that hard to find out what everyone was up to.
The industry grew and most people chose one message board or another to hang out and get info and exchange experiences. It wasn’t all that hard to stand one for all and all for one, while there may have been no immediate knowledge of everyone in the industry, there were plenty of industry people we did know and trust.
Today, this business is as risky as they come. You can’t trust anyone you don’t know, really. So there can’t be automatic trust.
Some of the programs that used to be best have now a murky reputation. There are countless newcomers, some fail, some stick around, and they each have a different modus operandi. There is no industry norm anymore. Nothing is transparent, mostly thanks to the murky legal situation.
It used to be that player reputation was essential for both the casinos and the affiliates. There was a finite number of affiliate sites online. Now there are millions. And the owners of these millions, for the most part, have never even heard of the message boards. They don’t care about the message boards. They care about getting an online business off the ground.
They have no idea whether players are being treated well. They have no idea whether the program they advertise is honest or not, or whether their sites don’t convert for other reasons.It’s everyone for him/herself anymore. Since there is no way to communicate with everyone, there is no way to cooperate for everyone. Like Judy said, in this forum our voices are loud, but in the world of gambling affiliates, they are but a muffled whisper.
Programs know this and capitalize on it. Some try to get as many affiliates as possible to cushion themselves. Some concentrate on fewer affiliates they can build personal relationships with. Some are a mix. Some have affiliate managers befriending affiliates on a personal level to gain top exposure. When that is achieved, and more profitable sites pop up, all of a sudden deals and friendships are forgotten and the affiliate is left out in the cold.
It’s a quagmire. Then you have programs that treat affiliates well and mess with players, and ones that treat players well and mess with affiliates.
And of course, there are both players and affiliates who commit fraud. It’s not a one sided situation, there are just a ton of individuals doing whatever they deem profitable.
You have thousands of people with grudges, some quiet, some loud.
So how to deal with all of that anymore?
If you can’t trust anyone but yourself, you can’t rely on any judgement but your own.
@casinobonusguy 248928 wrote:
Hi Guys ,
The programs who are suppose to be the great ones I cannot earn a decent income.The programs who supposedly are ‘bad guys’ pay my mortgage each month and have no issues converting my traffic compared to the ‘white knights’ of this Industry.You nailed it right there. You and I spoke about this last year in regards to Intertops. A great program that neither of us could get going.
There are countless programs like them that we would all love to do much better with but can’t seem to. Meanwhile some other programs that many have labeled as rouge for past transgressions that have been fixed are kicking ass for us.
As for RA and BS, yeah something is not right with those programs. I’ve pulled them both along with a few others I’ve come to not trust for various reasons.
What this industry needs is one very loud voice to protect affiliates and players. The only way this will happen is if we all band together for the good of the industry and not to make a few bucks by giving them a certification.
I would like to comment on the references here to BrightShare, one at a time:
It certainly would be unacceptable and unprofessional of me to discuss here the conditions under which Lloyd left BrightShare. Ditto for any legal dealings between BrightShare and anyone else.
Your connecting BrightShare with the FinSoft issue is beyone be me, so, I can’t comment on this one either….If you have a serious question about your earnings at BrightShare, or conversion at All Slots, then let’s look at it. In the spirit of mutual respect, write to me and let’s look at the facts. I have never turned an affiliate away who wanted me to investigate what is going on with his/her stats and/or traffic – and there are affiliates here who can attest to that.
The affiliate you are referring to where BrightShare paid him for past players, was a very particular case where a mistake had been made in setting up a new program for him – what to do, we are all human. If the affiliate had come to us immediately when he saw all his players disappear in one fell-swoop, the problem would have been corrected immediately. Because he didn’t, is why we did the accounting back to when the error was made. Not everything that happens is sinister.
I have been at BrightShare for nearly 8 (!) years and know it front, back and inside out. I can tell you with upmost certainty, we are straight as an arrow. I know this because once when I did need to change a player’s tag from one affiliate account to another (same affiliate) – I was put through the wringer to provide all the details and documentation to prove why I wanted this done. If I thought any less of BrightShare, believe me, I wouldn’t be here myself.
Thanks – Marcia
@fonzi 248947 wrote:
What this industry needs is one very loud voice to protect affiliates and players. The only way this will happen is if we all band together for the good of the industry and not to make a few bucks by giving them a certification.
The exact thing I’ve been saying for years. Except I either get ignored or worse, character assignated for trying to make this a reality.
I’ve always found it indifferently strange about this affiliate industry, with all the pitfalls and risks associated with being an online gaming affiliate, most of us who have been around for a while have stuck it out. What I find bizarre though, doing this takes a lot of belief in oneself and optimism too.
Yet, flip the coin and the amount of inherent distrust over anything new which could make a difference to how affiliates are treated is stomped on. Saying there are 200,000 affiliates and only some visit forums is self defeating. It’s definitely bizarre coming from anyone in this business given my opening paragraph, in this post.
All the time spent on white noise to forming a voice to fight against this tyranny, we could have established a solid group of affiliates by now, which I frankly believe is still possible. But, seems few are willing to take that step of faith.
Seriously what has anyone got to lose that isn’t already on the brink of extinction!
@AussieDave 248956 wrote:
One thing I’ve always found indifferently strange about the affiliate industry is with all the pitfalls and risks associated with being an online gaming affiliate, most of us who have been around for a while (lol) have stuck it out. What I find bizarre though, doing this takes a lot of belief in oneself and optimism too.
Yet, flip the coin and the amount of inherent distrust over anything new which could make a difference to how affiliates are treated is stomped on. Saying there are 200,000 affiliates and only some visit forums is self defeating. It’s definitely bizarre coming from anyone in this business given my opening paragraph, in this post.
With all the time spent on white noise associated to forming a voice to fight against this tyranny, we could have established a solid group of affiliate by now, which I frankly believe is still possible but seems no one is willing to take that step of faith and do something about it, instead of knocking the idea.
So the solution is…. ?
This is pretty much shot from the hip so don’t expect it to be mandate quality.
@Dominique 248957 wrote:
So the solution is…. ?
- Peers who will stand up and be counted.
- People who are sick and tired of watching their income evaporate.
- A central body which is part of these affiliates and represents them all as one.
That’s a pretty good start right there.
Having a voice which is represented by a group of affiliates is a BIG step, in the right direction.
I understand not everyone can afford to blacklist an affiliate program if they are dependent on that program to cover their living expenses. And that’s ok.
Remember we’re fighting for our rights as affiliates to a fair-go. Albeit, standing up against the likes of Ladbrokes for instance maybe a bit too optimistic, even for my standards. But in time and with others joining, plenty of other programs could be encourage to tow the line.
Without blowing my own trumpet. I commence the AWAA in August 2010. I have next to no members, (probably because I’m such a well liked identity in the industry). That was a joke btw.
Point is, with little to no support and only relying on Google, who, thankfully must like the site, I being just one solitary affiliate have had programs contact me asking how they can get removed from my blacklists and warnings. I’ve breached Commission365 and they got their act together in 10 days. They were then reinstated back as a sponsor.
NB – the AWAA has since dropped its sponsorship program and is now fully self funded.
Obviously I have some impact on making things change for the better. But imagine if there were more of us, what could be accomplished.
All I’m saying is lets give something like this a go. We’ve got nothing to lose except a bit of time. And with so much to possibly gain, then to me it seems are fair risk to take.
@AussieDave 248959 wrote:
This is pretty much shot from the hip so don’t expect it to be mandate quality.
- Peers who will stand up and be counted.
- People who are sick and tired of watching their income evaporate.
- A central body which is part of these affiliates and represents them all as one.
That’s a pretty good start right there.
Having a voice which is represented by a group of affiliates is a BIG step, in the right direction.
I understand not everyone can afford to blacklist an affiliate program if they are dependent on that program to cover their living expenses. And that’s ok.
Remember we’re fighting for our rights as affiliates to a fair-go. Albeit, standing up against the likes of Ladbrokes for instance maybe a bit too optimistic, even for my standards. But in time and with others joining, plenty of other programs could be encourage to tow the line.
Without blowing my own trumpet. I commence the AWAA in August 2010. I have next to no members, (probably because I’m such a well liked identity in the industry). That was a joke btw.
Point is, with little to no support and only relying on Google, who, thankfully must like the site, I being just one solitary affiliate have had programs contact me asking how they can get removed from my blacklists and warnings. I’ve breached Commission365 and they got their act together in 10 days. They were then reinstated back as a sponsor.
NB – the AWAA has since dropped its sponsorship program and is now fully self funded.
Obviously I have some impact on making things change for the better. But imagine if there were more of us, what could be accomplished.
All I’m saying is lets give something like this a go. We’ve got nothing to lose except a bit of time. And with so much to possibly gain, then to me it seems are fair risk to take.
Well, you are right, you have burned a few bridges over the years.
But in a way that makes it interesting – you need to find that missing link, that one way to reach the droves of affiliates that are not message board users.
Probably the only way to do that is google….and likely conferences. A lot of affilates there don’t go because they saw it on a message board, but because the programs sent out dinner invitations and such.
@Dominique 248961 wrote:
Well, you are right, you have burned a few bridges over the years.
Standing up for what’s wrong, unethical or down right crooked, shouldn’t be met with oposition. But unfortunately, while there are alliances (cliques) that will look the other way, and or go out of their way to discredit anyone who dares to take a stand against them. People like me (whistle blowers), will always be viewed not by trying to ‘keep the bastards honest’, but lies spread to make me and anyone else who stands against this ‘Cartel’, look like the ‘bad guy’ and evil doer!
@AussieDave 248962 wrote:
Standing up for what’s wrong, unethical or down right crooked, shouldn’t be met with oposition. But unfortunately, while there are alliances (cliques) that will look the other way, and or go out of their way to discredit anyone who dares to take a stand against them. People like me (whistle blowers), will always be viewed not by trying to ‘keep the bastards honest’, but lies spread to make me and anyone else who stands against this ‘Cartel’, look like the ‘bad guy’ and evil doer!
Well, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Trying to get a group of affiliates to agree on something is like herding feral cats.
We affs come from every culture, age group, race, gender, walk of life and what have you. Never have I seen a more mixed group. Personally, it’s one of the things I enjoy about this business. I love meeting people with different backgrounds, it keeps things interesting.
So I don’t really see a “cartel”. I don’t really see a lot of people agreeing on things. Each brings different experiences to the table, and each gathers different experiences while here.
I think the major issue you keep tripping over is that diversity, and the resulting differences in opinions. That, and the fact that when it comes down to it, most people will opt for keeping food on their table over idealism.
Dave it sounds to me you are looking for help to get all noses pointing the right way, unfortunately most that lurk here give a damn about your honesty and integrity as this is the gaming affiliate life : (dirty) money and greedy people – ofcourse not all of them…….but it reflects the nature of this business.
